Everyone Left Indianapolis. He's Doubling Down...

Since the 1980s, people have been fleeing downtown Indianapolis. They were headed towards the suburbs. Today's guest did the exact opposite. Greg Enis spent 30 years at Eli Liy and executive leadership. And once he retired, he should have moved to the beach and played some golf. Instead, he is the most connected man in Indianapolis. His calling is to make Indianapolis the joy capital of the world. And in this episode, he's going to tell us exactly how. Welcome back to the Roots Podcast. I am your host, Tyler, along with my co-host Max Moore. And today we are here with Greg Enis, a friend, a longtime indie resident, and a redemptive entrepreneur. So, Greg, thanks for coming on to the show with us today. Thanks, Tyler and Max. Great to be here. I love your energy. You always show up with a smile talking about a million things you're working on, going to Northern Indiana, doing this, me and this person. So, appreciate the the energy you bring into any room you're in. Well, I need to keep driving before gas prices get really, really, really high. So, I'm trying to make Oh, we can't fear monger too much. Oh, man. The gas prices are are rough. Aren't they in the $4? They went down and I think they're back up. I try not to like pay attention. Yeah, that's right. You know, I'm blind to it. Driving my e electric car. Some of us are lucky. Well, we'll jump into it here. Greg, I once heard from somebody that you're the most connected person in Indianapolis. How do you network your way to being that connected and that centered and indie? Well, I don't know personally if I'm the most connected. There's not a leaderboard somewhere. That's right. Scott Ling would confirm. My dad is like, "You got to meet Greg. He knows everyone and he reads 50 books a year and and leaves a huge review of it." But, well, that being said, you know, when I came here to Indianapolis, uh, I immediately was given the gift of a number of guys. We were all unmarried at the time and they each represented different populations, but we all came together. A friend of mine, Jim Long, we bought a home downtown Indie, 12th and Central, bought it on contract for $50,000, and now it's worth, you know, 10x if not more, if not more. Unfortunately, we had to sell uh I had to be the best real estate investment ever. Like you win. But but the neat thing about that to the point about dense network and and connectedness is that at the time that neighborhood was right south of 23rd in college known as Dodge City and uh bullets were flying. You know, there were gangs, you know, kids were not getting educated. Uh businesses had moved out. And we moved there because we were serving with our friend Percy Scrugs at the community outreach center where he represented the African-American community in that neighborhood. And so Jim and I represented two different populations. Uh then Jim had friends that came and lived with us. We had guys I was telling AJ we had a bunch of guys living with us that served in mission and through the intersection of the guys in the house working in the community and then my background working at Lily. I had bakedin networks that I was at the intersection of. And because I' i'm called to give love and receive love. Love your neighbor as yourself is what Jesus commanded. Uh I've sought to embrace that. And I'll tell you, I've been selfish. Uh I've been the most unloving of persons, but truly the greatest of these is love. And through that, just loving whether beyond the job, loving my staff, loving my colleagues, loving the neighbors, loving uh the community that I was in and loving the guys that I was in relationship with and them starting to bring people together. It just happened naturally because of love and service and hospitality that way. So often we're like, what are we going to do? We want to buy this building, build this huge business, make these grand plans, and you're like stuck in your head, right? But you need to get down to your heart. That's right. and realize like if you're with the right people, the Lord's going to provide the path. Like, man makes plans, but the Lord chooses his steps, right? That proverb. And so, I think you're a reminder that even while you were talking about like Brett, you know, a friend of ours in in Northern Indiana, Brett's going to he has a seed company and then he's buying multif family and I'm like, h I got to keep up with Brett and it's like no, maybe I just need to love on Brett and bring him into it and he's going to show the path, right? The relationship shines the light for me. That's right, Tyler. You know, Jesus said, "Come." I mean, Andrew said to his brother, "Come and see." Jesus was off here. It's that whole notion of come. You don't have to keep up with the Joneses. All you have to do is open up your life and say, "Come if you want to come and be with me." The Lord knows the desires on our heart, right? It's like he he says he he will give you the desires of your heart. But your desires will change when you give him your heart. Definitely is the key. So, that's right. We're going to be used. It's just a matter of who's who we be used by. That's right. And of course, you'll know where your heart is. Jesus said, "Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." So, the key indicator of where your heart is is where you allocating your time, your talent, and your treasure. Where does the deep rooted faith where where was that sprouted from? Well, I give thanks to God for allowing me to be raised by two wonderful parents. My mom and dad both love Jesus. Their parents love Jesus. And it's a long story. Uh but uh I was the oldest of six kids and every night my dad would sit all six kids down and I'll admit we didn't have a television till I was 13 years old. So we had to read. Tyler mentioning all the books I read. I just love reading because I wasn't I wasn't allowed to watch television historical books of like Abraham Lincoln's account in the in the Civil War. Like yeah you're reading some crazy stuff. I've seen your book list. But it was a blessing. Now, I felt we felt bad and mad because we couldn't have television. We didn't have all these distractions. Our neighbors did. We'd always try to sneak off if we could. It was a blessing in disguise. It was a blessing in disguise. My mom and dad loved us in the love of Jesus. And every night we would sit down and my dad who was a pastor at heart, but he could not accomplish the vocational task of being a pastor. World War II had it shot his nerves and so he couldn't have a public presence. But he'd sit us down and say, "Boys, at the time my sister wasn't born, boys, exedute." And we would we would get into the word of God. We would argue about it. We would dispute. There was my dad said, "There's no discussion off limits." And through the lens of scripture, we would hit on every topic known to man. Our house was not a safe place. You know why? There was love, but every idea was on the table. And that way it wasn't safe. Was it safe from violence? Yes. Was it safe from, you know, misogyny and theft and all that? It was so safe. But it wasn't safe when it came to ideas and using the lens of scripture to look at the world, look at all of creation. And so that's really the formative part of my life is having that deep rooted faith and saying, man, there's a man named Jesus Christ who is the son of God and allows me to live in freedom. Yes. Because first John says, "You'll know the truth and the truth will set you free." And my mom and dad really believe that and allowed us to embrace that growing up. I love that. That fires me up to slam the doors open and and allow the the spirit into to my home and as I start a family and and raise a a young son and raise him in the word and sprout that up. We're going to do something really cool later this year. And that's one of the reasons we had you on the podcast was for Indie Street Sweep that we're we're planning on July 7th. 777 of us are going to hit the streets and pick up trash and and better the city. Where was that vision? Where did that come from? Well, uh, I've always loved this city and I've always believed that we need safe streets and safe neighborhoods and it's, you know, you may have heard of the broken windows policy and if don't take take care of the broken windows in the vacant homes or other homes, pretty soon everything else is going to go downstream. Well, one metric of pride and ownership of course is is there litter and trash around. And so the the the I think Max through Ethan Fernho Ethan said Max has this idea and I think you were the one that brought this beautiful concept of picking up trash picking up the trash because I know that's what Roots does. You guys are leading the way here. But the whole vision is how do we get this uh group of guys uh from Citizen 7 and we now have about 1500 guys on the mailing list. Lots of small groups forming but not every we haven't done mission together. How do we get guys and others in the city doing something that brings guys together on mission? That's where guys form friendships. And then guys said, "Well, can I bring my spouse or friends or others and family?" I know you're open to anybody doing this. Anyone can open the door completely. Open the door. But the whole thing is it's not so much we're going to do good for the city, but I'm going to be with men and women, young and old, black and white and brown, that can form friendships because the power of friendship on mission and as friends, we're going to have a lot of fun picking up trash. I'm going to be at Watkins Park there at 23rd and can't wait. What I love is I think a lot of people in this day and age, you know, are cynical of Christians and think we're like bigoted or judgmental. But when I think people in Indie are driving to work and they see a massive amount of people out cleaning trash when the sun people are going to think something's wrong. Why are all these people outside with trash, but then they and then they hear like, "Oh, this was the Christian group." Yeah. It's like, "Oh, I think paradigms will shift like, oh, maybe this Christ, this Jesus thing, this reason is is real." That's right. And if we do it not once but year after year after year. That's right. What will that do to a city? Well, one, it'll be a lot cleaner. That's right. But two, I think there'll just be much more belief in the actual hands and feet of Jesus. Cuz that's ultimately what this is about. It's not about roots. It's not about citizen 7. Who cares about us? It's about being the hands and feet of Christ. And I completely agree. When you're operating in that way, it's the best conversations. It's the It's the best discussions and you dive to a level three conversation really quick. That's right. But that's why I like going to the streets with myself. We've had what, four best conversations ever. I don't even know who I'm next to, but we're swatting mosquitoes and, you know, avoiding poison ivy and just having an absolute blast, you know, and picking up trash and making an impact. My favorite part thus far of planning this has been the congregations that have reached out. all these different leaders of different congregations with uh the that represent the population of the city are running to get into the streets and walk with one another. That's right. And that's unique. That doesn't happen in in many cities. And it's going to be so good. What really stirred my heart is I believe this is true. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were invited in by the parks department to serve in these particular 21 or 23 different parks. Yeah. They give us a list of 21 parks. They are supplying all the everything that we need. The government is is paying for the trash bags, the gloves, um, and everything to keep us safe and we'll be picking up the trash behind us. And they're excited about it because July 4th is just a few days ahead. That's right. Well, again, the notion of invitation, not we're going to come in and we're going to be the big man here and shape you guys up. No, where can we be invited? And we're invited because we're winsome. We want to be humbled and saying, "Yeah, please come into into my neighborhood and be with us here." That's beautiful. So, I'm really excited and thank you so much you guys for taking the lead and leading by example already. Yeah, we we love it. We need a lot more guys though, don't we? We need a lot of these hats on that say roots. That's right. Are you going to actually do that and care about your roots or are we just going to be a brand? That is a nice font, right? So, I think it's it's up to us to do that. Deep roots. Quick pause here because if you're an investor in Indianapolis, access matters. That's why we work closely with Tony Bros at Indie Homes Reborn. He's one of our main sources for offmarket wholesale deals and consistently bring strong opportunities to our agents in our investor network. Click the link in our bio to get access to what Indie Homes Reborn has available. You know what I learned about trees recently? Guy East uh gave me this tip on a book about trees. And even when a tree is cut down and all that's left is that stump in the ground, guess what remains? I mean, those roots are still there. And you you have to do something extraordinary to pull all the roots out because those that root system is extensive. It's the roots that bring life. And some trees actually regenerate even though you can cut them down because that those roots are still there. Or if you look at aspen groves, you know, those those groves last forever because the roots are interconnected tree to tree. It's not just one root, you know, a root system per tree. It's the whole cluster, the whole grove of trees that are feeding off each other. So, I love your brand because it's not just about you. It's about what's happening underneath uh the city. And there's someone in this room that wants to fall in love with Indianapolis. And I'll tell you what happens is that when those roots start to to spawn and and see something on top of the surface start to grow, that's when love can happen because you don't know what's happening now. We can get discouraged what's happening now. We can read the newspaper about what's happening now and whatever, but there God is doing something beautiful underneath and it's going to germinate. I think what's uh interesting and uh an agent on our team, Ian, always talks about this. He's like, "People always want to move to the beaches or the mountains or the good weather and they're always talking about I'm going to go to somewhere cool and then maybe plant my roots." Yes. But our idea is inverting it. What if you planted roots where you were now? That's right. So, I don't see why people don't see what we're doing 777 from Cleveland or Fort Wayne and say, "Hey, we need to plant roots here." That's right. And do it in a way that shows we we we love and live in the way of Christ. So I don't think you can truly plant roots in a genuine way without the faith, right? Like I mean it's very difficult, right? There's usually an ulterior motive or something or virtue signaling, but it's like if you're truly planting roots and that means you care for the long haul. That's right. It's not a me life where I live. It's a long-term investing in a place. And so that's also why we work with real estate investors. It's the same perspective, right? You have to care about the capital that's being poured into your city. Right. Right. That creates the environment that you're in. One thing I'm really excited about to that is creating Indianapolis as the joy capital of the world. Joy is a long-term infinite game thing. You know, Hebrews says, "For the joy set before him, Jesus endured the cross and suffered the shame." He was not happy. He was not smiling when he was pierced in the side and nailed to the cross or even when he was rejected by his own disciples. You know, those aren't happy events. Happiness depends on circumstance. But if you're playing the long game, to your point, you got roots deep. Joy is the product of a good God and a hard God, right? He said he does things that we don't often understand. But it's for his good purposes planted in him that we can have this joy just ooze out of us just like Jesus on the cross. And so that's why I love planting roots. I'm from California. My family would love to have me back there and I'd love to be out there. The beaches, you know, the the sunshine, the high taxes, you know, I could buy a tent, not a house. But, you know, but still, no, I thankfully my wife and I have decided, nope, God has his planted roots right here because of that. The joy capital of the world. I love it. That's such a good good tagline. I think we're going to do it. We are. I I think we will, too. We might. We might be there. you guys. We might be there now. People just have to join the community. That's right. Driving over here, I was uh Rex Fischer called me out of the blue uh to tell me about a statistic that he saw with Chicago being the frontr runner of the median home value increase uh across America, just a recent study that he had seen and talking about how Indianapolis will play off of that and that we will be the neighboring beneficiary of that rise because Indie is rising as well. Mhm. Um and he was talking to getting me all hyped up on Indianapolis. And then I asked him I just said, "Hey, we're having Greg on the podcast. What's a curiosity I should have for him?" And and what he shared is that you were one of the first to come in and to start investing here uh and to to mobilize into the city. And his curiosity was what did people say to you when when you were moving into the city? What were some commentary that you were receiving? You were passing moving trucks going the opposite way. That's right. That's a great question because all my Lily colleagues were not in the city back in the 80s. They thought I was the weirdest guy and they couldn't believe it. I I'll never forget though um one of my colleagues, dear friend, he didn't really know me real well up front. He saw me because I was driving home on uh Delaware, packed traffic downtown, rush hour traffic on Delaware, coming up from Lily Corporate Center to my home at 12 and Central that I told you about. and a guy had a flat tire in front of me. I stopped and I helped him. My friend happened to drive by me because he was on his way out to the suburbs and he came to me the next day and said, "Greg, I noticed what you did." That really meant a lot to me that and I see now why you're here in the city because you stopped and helped that guy. It was my neighborhood. M I couldn't just blow through, drive through to get up to Hamilton County. That was my neighborhood. I love Hamilton County, by the way. But that that's sort of an emblematic of your question there is uh I was thought as some of a weird guy. You know, Lily guy people did not live downtown back in the 80s, but that's where God had called me and I was just able to be a a little pawn uh there, an instrument of God's at that time. What um what was it that stirred you towards planting roots 12th and central? You know, you're working at Lily. They're about 10 minutes apart. Um what was it that stirred you to double down on downtown Indianapolis when let's be honest, Bottle Works wasn't there. You know, it wasn't I don't even know, you know, if Lucas Lucas Ale wasn't there. Like, it wasn't like this cool place that it is today. Um coming from California, you know, why why did you double down on Indian? I've always had a heart for the city. My city where I grew up was a broken city during the 60s. Tumultuous even though there was lots of free love and hippies and yippies, you know, it was a culturally tumultuous time with uh you know, the Black Panthers were formed there with uh Vietnam War uh doing that. So the whole notion of looking back at race problems and and war and dominance and US oppression and whatnot, that was part of my fabric, my DNA growing up. and I saw government money being poured in to our schools there and into the city and yet it was squandered. It didn't bring life to anyone who was oppressed. It didn't bring joy to anyone. So I've always had this heart, what's going on in urban context. Then I went to school in LA, big urban context. I was sort of sequestered because it was suburban school, but I went to grad school in Richmond, Virginia, back downtown Richmond and we tried to serve in the community there. and I saw the same kinds of things that the urban life for me was where my heart was. So when I moved here to Indie, my friend invited me to start to mentor young boys who were going to Tech High School and at the time Emanuel High School down there on Madison. Uh and so started mentoring them and they were working with a guy named Percy Scrugs at 23rd and Central near 12th and Central. and we decided we'd love to live in this neighborhood and plan our roots here because we want not just to float in with these guys and leave them after an hour or two. We were coaching basketball, so sometimes it was three or four hours, but it was still that notion of coming in and then exiting, you know, and having that rhythm. What if we were to do life with these guys? And then we thought, what if we put them to work? Let's let's pay them a fair wage, have them provide sweat equity because we had to rehab that old home built in 1903. You know, back then homes were being cut up into apartments to because families weren't living downtown. So, we hired them. We developed we were their neighbors. We just just a mile away or less from them. And that was a beautiful situation that reinforced Greg, the urban life is where you need to be. So, I've always had a heart for downtown Indie. You know, we don't have suburbs unless we have a downtown Indie because you can't be a suburb of nothing, right? And so, this is where and that's where Lily Corporate Center is. And I don't know if you remember back younger days, you guys are young men, but Lily corporate used to be separate from downtown Indie, you know, the railroad tracks and there was it was like a a desert to walk up to Monument Circle. Now it's getting connected with City Way and that kind of thing. But, you know, from Lily Corporate through Slippery Noodle up Meridian and that, you know, it was like that's a long hall. We were so disconnected. So, I've always had it for connection in urban Indianapolis. Quick break for a second. 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Number two in the amount of people that work inside the metropolitan area and then leave after 5:00 p. m. to go home. Yep. And so property taxes, schools, right? All parks, wreck, everything is going to be awesome in Hendricks or Hamilton County or Hancock, but the money doesn't stay besides sales tax. If you go to lunch, that's it. That's right. Tiny little slippery, right? Yeah. So, it's like that's important that there are people that choose to live in the heart of the city because it is the heartbeat. Yeah. And we are and it is become it's start, you know, COVID and what happened then, you know, sort of brought it down. We've lost a lot of momentum in our city. I lament that, but it's going to come back with you. What are you seeing? Yeah, I think it it will come back. I mean, I grew up on the west side of Indianapolis in a suburb and it was foreign land to travel downtown and then I started working in real estate downtown and a majority of my transactions are not in Hendricks County even though that's where my network is because I've been in this urban place and uh my wife and I are are moving into the city from Danville in the next week. Congratulations. closing on a home and coming in. So, what neighborhood are you moving into? We'll be in Nor. So, we're not like totally downtown, but it's suburban of Indie, but still Indianapolis. It's a It's a step. It's a stepping st because when I started it was like to I I met with him downtown at a coffee shop that's not even the same place anymore. Um I think Java facilitates it now. And it was like that was foreign to me. Yeah. To like where are we? We're meeting at 52nd and what? I don't even know. Um, and now it's like I'm I'm here. I'm in the city every single day. And it feels like an exodus every day. I'm like I'm leaving the people that I'm loving on from 7:00 a. m. to 6:00 p. m. and I'm going home to uh this foreign land, right, to lay my head. And I'm I went to my wife. I'm like, I'm over it. Yes. We're moving in, right? And our doors are wide open and and it's going to be a place of worship and invite neighbors in. We need you. That's beautiful. We know I was reading today uh Simon Properties had bought up some of South Meridian there and they just announced today they're putting in Old Red. Did you see that news today? Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. So Blake Shelton's his song and and then the Simon I forget the Simon guy, but they were talking what Indie has and we're known for now is sports, but Blake Shelton said sports and country music and he's all fired up about Old Red being here. But I thought to myself, that's beautiful, but it's not good enough. Not everyone is can pay for sports or be involved with sports. There's lots of, you know, feeders with hospitality, right? And then we have the racetrack. And then country music. I mean, to tell the truth, I'm not a big country music fan. But I because I'm a horrible square dancer, you know, a line dancer. I'm just no good. But that's great. But what about everything else outside of that? that there's more more to life than just sports which can wear on you. I mean NBA playoffs are on now and there's some good play but pretty soon it's like three months long. Yeah. Come on. Let's go. So the point is I love the announcement but it's more it's people like you Max saying I'm going to move in here. I'm going to welcome my neighbors in. Neighbors that may not be able to take advantage of sports and country music. I'm so I'm so excited for everything going on. So, let's keep going and and uh see this city really pop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hope people follow in my footsteps. Yeah. What is the the biggest change you've noticed? You've lived downtown for decades at this point. Uh what is the biggest change you've noticed over time? And where do you think the trajectory of Indy's going? Well, that's a great question. I uh when I said I sense a loss of momentum you know we see the news you know violence gun violence and there is you know the family breakdown here in the city uh we've seen the loss of local capital you know the banks are most of the banks in town are not local indigenous banks they're national banks you know the point is when you lose ownership when you lose capital driven ownership and stewardship of the city you lose you lose that spirit and so Uh that's what that's what I've seen is we've lost a sense of ownership for the city. That's why we have had this homeless problem, you know, and how are we going to love love those that aren't unhoused and do right for them. How about the streets? How about the potholes? You know, as Bob Osley is running for mayor and a wonderful friend, has said he wants black velvet, but given the federal uh allocations for road paving, you have to pay as much per mile for a four-lane road or six lane road as you would do for a two-lane road. So, a lot of roads are beautiful in some counties because they're paying for just two lanes for one mile. We have to spread that black velvet around uh to cover four, six, eight lanes. So u that's just another symbol of some things that we have to adjust family formation housing good jobs in here in town but good schools for our kids you know appreciate that there's been some tumult on the educational side I think there's some structures being put in place that hopefully will animate every kid receiving a wonderful education and being all that they can be made in God's image. So I am very hopeful about some of those moves, but we need strong leadership here in the city. A real vision for the city. Amateur sports capital of the world was a vision 20 years ago. You know, Christian Anderson and others are touting speed city. You know, you talked to Dave Nef who's chairman now of the Indie uh the 500 festival and Christian at High Alpha. I love that notion. Speed to relationship, speed to family formation, speed to education. In other words, not speed that kills, but speed to something that brings life. So that's what that's where I'm hoping the momentum changes and that whole notion of speed just just jives with momentum, you know, and energy and getting there quicker. As long as people don't think of the the drug, right? The first thing that came to mind was like, no, but this the first came to mind. But speed city, unfortunately, I was like, and for me, speed to joy. Yeah. What what if this city just captivated residents and guests alike and you sort of walked into an experience saying this is mine? Where do you think that that brand comes from? Is that the leadership? Is that grassroots? How do how do you how does that city rebrand? I I think it's both. So I'm a I'm working at the grassroots level. Uh but you know with people like VOP and and Dave Nef and Christian who have more public uh personas given the institutions they lead. Uh but it's going to come also from people willing to run for office. Yeah. Right now it's a little scary being a politician. Your house might get shot up. You know, your you house might be burned down. So we need fearless people being incubated in institutions who've led and grown institutions saying I want to run. I want to do public service and do it right. Not just for my own ego but because I love this city. So we need that there. We need strong churches. Ethan Fernhober with Multiply Indiana and Together Indie trying to develop pastoral networks saying we aren't here to grow mega churches necessarily. We're here to love our neighbors. My metric is this. How many folks are walking to church? Oo, all of a sudden that big number starts dropping way down. Right. What if I ride an ebike? Okay, that's close. Pedal your pedal your way there as much as possible. That's even better. But the point, yeah, ride your bike or or walk to walk to church. But let's that's the grassroots level and jobs that you can go to. You know, we have Pulk stables. We're sort of out in front of, you know, it's a not a high density work, live, play area there at 16th and Monan, but there's some energy being generated now about job creation. People walking to work, walking to joy, being in community, seeing people black, white, brown, low socioeconomic, higher socioeconomic status coming together. to that citizen 7. So those are all organic gra grassroots efforts but it needs leadership too to c to make sure that vision I'm going to share with you my website that my friend Joel Austin put together for me with some guidance from me on what are the 10 indices that that that actually allow one to assess whether we're the joy capital of the world or not. And it boils down to housing. It boils down to home formation. Our dad's loving for life. the mothers of their children and that could that spans socioeconomic status. There's lots of affluent families where that's not the case. It's not just, you know, in the hood that we're talking about. It's everywhere. Job creation. Uh what are we doing relative to infrastructure in the city? Are our streets safe? How many of you have bent rims, you know, and flat tires? I do. Yeah. Just I'm ridden. One of the best most paved streets in the city. Boom. Wrecked my wife's car. So all those things flow together, but you need upfront top leadership. I'm really proud of our state for pushing back against redistricting. Here I'm getting on political terms, but I'm not a politician, but I think Indiana has the guts to really lead the nation in leadership for a thriving, flourishing community if we hold fast to our values. Pause. A quick break from the episode. The lender you choose will make or break your experience. That's why our team at Roots consistently works with Rnado Lima from Approved Mortgage. He communicates clearly, moves quickly, and understands both retail and investment loans at a high level. When my guy Renado's on the deal, things move steady. When you get serious about buying, click the link in the description and contact Renado today. The values can be felt like just so quickly being here. And it's hard to almost describe to somebody who's not. You go to Chicago and then come back here. I feel you feel the warmth. Yeah. Yeah. You feel the different Well, you feel the green space number one. It's a lot of concrete there. Yeah. You just feel like there's actually trees and grass and houses with yards even downtown. Yeah. Are you going to become an Indiana Bears fan? Indiana Bears. It doesn't sound like that's going to happen. I I heard that most residents would disown the team if they moved to Indiana. So, I don't know if they can save face. What I think is most impressive um is that you had a a long career at El Liy. I believe it was primarily Eli Liy. Um that's right. 30 years. And you know, you probably could have retired, moved to some country club, played golf all day, pickle ball, whatever. But if I think you said it, you're working harder than you ever had now on this uh impact driven uh activation, right? What is a day in the life look like doing this? How does someone do this who's like, you know, I don't want to retire and live off my 41k. Drive my wife crazy. She says I'm working three times as hard for no pay. Uh like, honey, I thought we were going to have a nice It truly is. It's born out of I I pray and hope it's born out of love for people and love for the city. Uh where you know Don Palmer, my dearest friend uh and I have helped you know because we were mentoring in the city uh just the two of us and guys joined us and now we're like I mentioned 1500 guys on the mailing list and a couple hundred who are really core and doing some wonderful stuff together in the city. So that takes a lot of time. We're trying to turn it over to the next generation. So what you guys are doing with 777, that's exactly what Don and I dream of is we need to back off and turn this this thing over, this movement that is snowballing like crazy over the next gen. uh Pulk Stables I mentioned too, dear Sergeant George has really taken a beautiful uh risky vision of his to create something that is really ground zero for this redemptive economy, redemptive entrepreneurship, redemption of the neighborhood and the community, welcoming people in and being welcomed in, not forcing our way. So really appreciate him. uh my best friend Mike Evans and what he's doing. He's been a longstanding business owner, you know, down in the city too. Just people like that who are involved in this network, whether it be entrepreneurs, business owners, but loving the city well. Uh that takes up all my time nurturing and being part of of that community. I have my fa my family at home uh too and which is really a beautiful thing. But we are there any um specific metrics you track how you're doing your new job? Well, I track uh so how am I how is my time being allocated? Is Sabbath Sabbath for me? You know, I say we have lousy Sabbaths because we have lousy work. And so I'm really in the flow of the work God has called me to. And so rest is really important, especially as I age, but a true uh Sabbath and and not feeling guilty about taking taking that break. So for me, having the discipline of getting on my bike, no earbuds, you know, or anything, just enjoying nature. I like biking through Eagle Creek Park where I live near there. So that's really beautiful. So that's one rhythm. Uh allocating my time to be at Pulk Stables just on Thursdays and Fridays. I will be there Monday through uh Wednesday if necessary, but saying if you want to meet and be there, pulk, that's those are the days I'm going to be there. So, it's sort of being intentional about how to parse my time out. Uh George Gilder flipped the notion that when people say time is money, you know, get to work. You've probably heard that before. Time is money. You can't waste it. He flipped it and said, "No, money is just a measure of time." You see, if we're in this for the long haul, guess what's never going to end? We in the resurrection right time is infinite. Right. Right. Now there is no more time ultimately but because the who knows about space-time continuum but the point is if you operate from a money is just one measure of time. We move from a scarcity mindset i. e. no money to an abundance mindset time. We have infinite time. And as as followers of Jesus, we may not have much money, but we know we have infinite time. Isn't that beautiful? And so that mindset is really important for us and and for me, how I spend my time, but I can chill out because I know he's got it and I don't have to worry about these things. Well, there's still work to be done eternally. Lots of work. It's it's in the Bible like we you will have a position. will be rewarded responsibility depending on how you resp you handle responsibility here on earth. So it's something for us all to consider like that's right we're humans are born to work to c curate the garden that was been wired to carry out a mission and a calling. That's right. And I think that calling will probably continue with will will with that it definitely will continue. God's so expansive and he's infinite, right? Who knows what he has called us to be and do with but it's going to be with him. We aren't going to rebel anymore. Yeah, Max will still be making systems and spreadsheets in heaven and I'll still be taking coffee meetings. I thought I could escape my queue. Why not? But you're like, hopefully Yeah. Hopefully dollars won't be coffee without too much acidity, right? Yeah. Goodness, that acid reflux will get you. To tie it all this together, we came up with a little bit of a fun uh gamified task here. Mhm. You're called up to give a presentation in front of just an audience of 500 young entrepreneurs, right? What is your twominut pitch to the next generation? Ah, come and see. You want an adventure? You're born for adventure. You ain't seen nothing until you follow Jesus. You don't know where he's going to take you. But I'll guarantee you, it's going to be hard. It's going to you're going to have to trust him with everything you got. You willing to do that? You willing to climb that mountain? You But that mountain may start off picking up trash off the street. In other words, to think I'm going to go change the world. I that's a beautiful desire. But it might mean the most ordinary of things that you're called to do. But you're faithful in doing that. First and foremost, loving your neighbor as yourself. What does that mean? That means you've been given love to receive it, to not apologize for it, and then to share it. That's the greatest adventure. And if that's your if that's your engine and the oil that powers your engine where Jesus takes you, I just say best wishes because you're you're in for the time of your life. So that's what he's calling us to do. Come and see. Check them out. There's lots of things that you think he is. People say, "This is Jesus. This is Jesus." don't believe it. All kinds of false stuff going on. Anything that that uh approaches violence in any way or subjugation or oppression or theft, me, this is mine, I'm going to take. That's why that notion of redemptive entrepreneurship of practicing not just uh going pushing against exploitation baselining what's ethical but moving towards the redemptive edge which means the creative restoration of life through sacrifice. If you're called to sacrifice but in a way that uh is doing what God wants you to do. I can guarantee you, I promise you, young man, young woman, you're gonna have the time of your life, and you'll do it with others who are like-minded, which is beautiful. You can't do it alone. So, I don't know if that's two minutes or not, but that's all I can say. Exactly. Two minutes. No, you're one second off. You got no Larry Browning came on our podcast and he said for a long time it was be ethical, right? Treat people how you'd want to be treated. And then he realized there was another level which was beyond ethics, right? which I think is that redemptive right um edge that you I love that that phrasing redemptive edge there's an edge to it the practis redemptive book yes it's so short so sweet but so practical when you put the redemptive arm of business into practice right and that's something that we we almost try to put first foremost it matters more than anything else to us it's the it's the pillar everything feels off if it's not there yes right it's like staleness of like transactional. Everything doesn't have like a glow, right? There's like a heavenly glow to when you're doing things for a truly missional redemptive reason. It's hard, don't get me wrong. Like, yeah, you all we're all worried about provision and this and that and getting yours, but Right. What does it get you? You know, it doesn't get you anywhere. That's right. People get it and then their marriages and fall off the cliff, their kids, you have an abundant relationship, your peace index gets ruined and you have none and your peace index gets ruined again. I always say I know a hedge fund manager that has his divorce lawyer on speed dial. It's like he doesn't have wealth. Yeah. No way. He doesn't have wealth. You guys are the richest young men in the world because you don't have you may not have a lot of wealth but you got the love and you can't buy love. And there's nothing greater. Greater love has no man than this than he laid down his life for his friends. That's the real secret. I love it. We have some rapid fire questions to end with. So Greg, what is your favorite restaurant in Indianapolis? Okay, I'm biased. It's not online yet, but it's coming. It's called Montgomery's. It's my son's restaurant with his partners at Julietases. Julietases serves the finest tacos in the Midwest. They're in the Stuts building, 10th and Capitol. They're they've taken over a new 60 uh seat space there that was a former uh coffee parlor. They're in the STS building and they hope to come online about June of this year with a restaurant called Montgomery's named after West Montgomery, the famous jazz guitarist that a lot of preeminent guitarists have tried to emulate. So that will be my favorite restaurant. I can guarantee you though the food's great because he's been curating his menu with some popups the best sandwiches and burgers and sides. Love the name. What type what type of food is it? So, it's an American base, but uh his partners are Hispanic Julietas, and they're going to they fuse different things with it. You're going to see an American base with international fusion on topic from time to time. I love going to I take it home uh carry out for my wife all the time. They I think they are the best tacos in the city. They're they're amazing. And people say $5 taco. Have you seen the size of those tacos? It's three or four tacos based in, you know, put in one. So that's my fa that's my favorite coming up is Montgomery's. Yeah, we'll have to keep that on our radar right in the STS building. What is one habit that has changed your life? I think one habit that has changed my life is being called to task by my dear wife who over the years has realized that when I come across conflict, I try to prevent conflict. That's my, you know, my sense of how do I down I look ahead and say, "Oh, there might be conflict there. How do I make sure we don't get it?" But when it comes, I've tended to shy away and like a turtle crawl up into my shell and just protect myself, self-preservation. and she's called me to task and said, "Greg, you need to develop a habit of being vulnerable, of not crawling up, not s not silencing your mouth, not silencing your actions, but to be liberated by coming outside that shell and just admit your mistakes if you've made a mistake, admit where you were wrong, admit where you may have fallen short, and not try to defend yourself." That's the habit that over the past few years has been incredibly important to me living my life. I love that. Yeah. Walk in the light. Yes. The truth will set you free. That's right. Cliche, but they're so so true. It's powerful. It's hard, but it's Yeah. I love the clearing the air conversations with my wife of just like here's where I sucked and then she's like reciprocating and we were like so like tense and like against each other and it's like it just softens melts butter. Nothing better, you know? Can I just share? I just wish the church was like that. You know, I know I'm a part of it and I haven't practiced that, but that's what we're called to be around the Lord's table. You know, Paul says, "Don't come to the table if you have something against your brother. Make it right." We aren't doing that. And that's why we're in the shape we're in because we have not been Jesus people with each other, loving each other, honestly, with clarity that way. So, yeah, there'd be more of our our generation still in the church if we had been that way. That's right. But young men are coming back in droves. That's a whole another podcast. A whole another podcast. Last question here for you. If you had a billboard uh that could say one thing in Indie, what would you put on it? Indianapolis, the joy capital of the world. Should have known that answer. That's a perfect way to end it. We're going to see it soon. Indianapolis, the joy capital of the world. I think we should put out at the end of the year like a poll on the best one because we've asked that question to every guest at some point in the episode and go buy the billboard and and put it up. Guess what my dad said for that question? Do you really want me to guess? I mean, no, I would not really, but yeah. Hustle your way to heaven. That's good. That's good. That's funny. Uh it's combining the hust the hustle uh aspect with uh the redemptive or Christian aspect. They I don't know if they mesh super well on that. Sounds like a worksbased religion, but it was faith over fear, which is he never would have became an entrepreneur or done high school hustle or done anything damnable if he didn't take that step into jumping off the the salary in the W2 position that on himself. I love that. Yeah. One of my favorite verses is perfect love casts out all fear. Ultimately, it's that love. I just dispelled it and that's what I walked into. Yeah, that's awesome. Thanks, Greg, for coming on the podcast. Where can people find out more about you if they want to get involved? Well, uh, they can check out pulkstables. com to find out where we're planning this ground zero for the redemptive economy of the state. uh they can check out citizen7indy se numeral 7 uh citizen7indy. com to if you're a guy to be a part of this great movement of men loving each other and out of authentic friendship overflowing to love for the city and that's why I want to give another prop to 777 you got to uh sign up for that what's the website for 777 Max yeah indiestreetswepeep. com you can sign up there and come join us on July 7th this year pick up some trash. It's going to be beautiful. And then with the the practis redemptive entrepreneurship, if you're a founder, if you're a owner operator, and Max, you mentioned the playbook, the business playbook, and want to have resources uh that will allow you to move towards that redemptive edge with your business. Check out practis. co. There's free resources there, free playbooks, and we meet regularly, and we're actually standing up a new iteration of practice here. you'll be hearing about it where you'll be invited to a number of different things. Uh, and really excited about that movement going too. That's amazing. This has been another episode of the Roots Podcast. Be sure to like and subscribe and leave a comment and sign up to come pick up trash. Peace.