Stop Flipping from Out of State: How to Build Real Wealth

There's ROI, which is just straight up cash on cash. And there's ROI, which is return on time invested. All too often, I get people, I want to buy Burr. I want to buy flips. I want to do this. Don't flip from out of state. You're going to lose a crap ton of money. Everybody that's flipped out of state that I know has lost a crap ton of money. I no longer represent clients from out of state that want to flip properties. I don't want to watch you lose, and I know that you're going to lose inevitably. I'm getting calls, hey, my insurance jacked up two times. I got to go to Indie. All right, welcome back to another Roots podcast where we help people plant roots and build wealth. I'm here with Max Moore. It's just an intimate we're on a date today. You ready for this? It's an internal boys only episode, which honestly, if you look at our YouTube, that's all people care about cuz nobody's watched episode 2, three, four, five, six, or seven. Nicks has been straight up. Nicks actually just did surpass the first episode. But come on, guys. We got some cool guests on and and we're we're trying to get these schedules together. boys. They just like the boys. So, we're giving it to you. We're giving you what you like. Yeah. So, as I was on the way here, I was actually listening to another podcast, which was the Indie REI podcast with Jeremy Tolman, who runs TNH, which is probably the biggest property management company in in the greater indie area. And he had a special guest, which was you. So, I listened to your beautiful voice on the way here. It was actually better than I expected. No offense. I wasn't expecting you to be a turd, but it was like really good. Like I was learning so much from the both of you and the topic was on can you actually cash flow in the Midwest or in Indie and the answer was I'll kind of cut to the chase with it. The answer was essentially you can still build wealth in real estate but it's going to look different than it did two decades even a decade ago. But I guess where I would love to jump in is how do you think about investment real estate right now with what we're trying to build with roots? It's hard to cash flow. Yeah, it's almost impossible. How do you think about kind of some of that stuff with what we're trying to build at roots in building wealth? Yeah, it was fun to to chat with Jeremy because we have two wildly different perspectives. He jumped in in the early 2000s and I was just being born in the early 2000s, maybe even like conceived when he bought his first rental. Um, so I'm 25 years behind his portfolio. And he's like, "Can you cash flow?" And I'm like, well, in 2016 maybe, but like I wasn't buying houses then. Ever since 2023 when I started buying houses, no, you can't really cash flow. Um, which led to, okay, wait, what does cash flow actually mean? Cuz if I go buy in cash, sure, I'll be raking in, you know, the commission check or not the commission check, too. T too used to being an agent. That's got to be a legal. No, we are agents. We can do that. But raking in the the rent check every month. Yeah, sure. You'll get a dividend on your investment. And that's what I always like to go back to is like if I invest in in uh Target stock, okay, we'll promote some Target stock here. I own some. Anytime my wife spends money at Target, I buy the same exact money in in stock. Fun fact. Um I own a lot of Target stock and did not know that about you. Target pays dividends quarterly uh on my investment and the wealth in equity in Target stock increases. That's how I view real estate. The thing about real estate though is it's less volatile and it does not go down as much currently. Negative on target stock, right? But I'm not selling it or like getting rid of it because I'm still getting those dividend checks. Um, that's a really funny way of saying when you invest, it's all about time. And people try to press that fast forward button. They're like, "Give me wealth now." Well, if you have a lot of cash, sure, you can go buy some wealth. But if you don't, you've got to play the long game. So, and I said I didn't want to go into the five profit centers. real estate and I'm going straight in. But I think we're going to get there into our dayto-day and building roots, which is where I want to go is like, what do you do, Max and Tyler, all day? Do you just fart around on social media? Part of that's maybe true, but um there is tactical strategical things we're trying to do with clients and with our own portfolios, which I want to get into, but the saying was you could cash flow $300 a door in Indie maybe in 2018, right? That's is that gone? I guess I'm just going to frame it up as a question. Is that gone? And then if so, where's the win? Right. Been doing it. I mean, I think we we should just promote your uh Laurel Street house, which is going to be sold by May and somebody's going to be able to buy it. Um Laurel Street, if somebody wants to buy it, what do you want to sell it for? I would love to sell it for 120. 12. We're going to put the number in the numbers at 120 or in the description. It was negative 81 with maintenance. With maintenance. It was self-managed. Oh, with self-manage. I was running at 7% interest. What's the bed count? Bed 21. You could get a section 8 uh like HUD bash in there for 1,400 bucks a month. Oh, then that's money. We're going to cash flow 150. Life changing, right? But you don't turn on the thermostat in the winter and the pipes go and the neighbor calls and says, "Hey dude, your house looks like a pontoon boat without a propeller." Yeah. Quick story there. I got a call on Sunday morning literally drinking my coffee about to go to church and there was water gushing out of the front door and I've now been vacant. That's not funny. When I got that video I was like, "Oh man." But also kind of laughed at it. It was like a billboard telling me sell this property now and I'm a buy and hold guy. But now I've realized I want to hold the good assets, right? Not the shitty backs up to the interstate class C single family two bed. I'm just not interested in holding that particular one. Right. So, this is a 1031 move. And you're gonna walk away with equity, I presume. Yeah. I bought it for 80. Yeah. I can't lose money on this deal. And bought it in 2021. So, that's the win. Where you're at is you bought it in 2021. It's now 2025. You're going to sell it. You're going to walk away with I don't know. You're not You might pay yourself as a realtor, but I doubt that you're going to pay yourself. And so, I'd just be stealing from Peter to pay Paul. Right. Right. And so, let's, you know, do some quick math. If you sell it for 120, you're probably going to walk away with like 35k in equity there about. Um, that was a 80,000. So, you put probably like what 1520 down to buy it. I had a private l I had a family member lend me 65, let's call it, and I put 15 in. We bought it in cash. Nice. So, it it was refinanced to buy the Rookwood property, which I don't need to get into all the details, right? But I have a mortgage, but it's probablyif it's probably only 50 to 65% levered. Got it. On the ASIS value. So, you're going to walk away, you're going to be able to 1031 exchange from that. And and the point that I'm getting to is that is the win in real estate. Um, if you pulled up a spreadsheet on that property, I bet you would be negative historically. I don't think that you have eclipsed the amount of equity that you put in originally from cash flow. Maybe you have, maybe you haven't. Cuz I owned it for about one and a half years outright. It's positive cash flow. If it was levered 80%, it would guaranteed be negative thousands of dollars. Eclipse the 156,000 that you put into it in the beginning, right? But walking away, it does because you get that 15 to 16 back and you can move that forward into a nicer, better asset. But to break into real estate, which is what we help people do on a daily basis, you had to buy Laurel Street at $80,000 with 15K down and 60K lever from a family in the red. first investment is a short way of saying what you're saying. And and you you got smart buying that. Yes. Pain pain in the butt for like a moment, but actually that property wasn't bad the whole way through except the insurance paid me too for the pipe burst. So I mean Yeah. I mean, you just somehow get these freaking insurance claims that I've never seen anyone be able to get. I mean, it should be covered. It was a pipe burst. But this is true. Um they found out it wasn't d This is a short aside. They found out it wasn't due to the cold, which I thought I wanted to cover up. Hopefully I'm not going to get sued. I thought I wanted to cover up the fact that my thermostat was really low. But she said, "No, this is a really old pipe. It's actually totally covered by the home." Nice. I was like, "Whoa, that went 360 around in my brain, like way too easy to get the insurance." She was like, "No, this is the shittiest pipe out there." What she basically said to me, and it was covered cuz they insured it. Crazy. Yeah. And and I mean uh I I also would love to do an analysis one day on your portfolio to see how much you've actually paid for insurance compared to how much you've gotten back in claims because I think that you're pretty close. It's pretty close. Insurance is a whole rabbit hole that we probably don't want to go down. It's becoming less coverage insurance boys, but it's becoming less coverage now for more premium. This is true. Because they're all they lost billions in 2023 with the wildfires. Probably now in 2024, too. Yeah. They're gonna continue to lose hurricanes, wildfires. The world is turning upside down as far as natural disasters go and also, right? So, come to the Midwest where you can still make insurance claims on on pipes that were not frozen. They were Well, that's my theory. I think a lot of Florida, California, even I saw um random states like Pennsylvania have crazy high I have no clue why Pennsylvania has high insurance. They have like one of the highest. They are calling us. I'm getting calls, hey, my insurance jacked up two times. I gotta go to Indie. And then where are we pointing them to? I'm pointing them into these new build duplexes. Yeah. Which we have six, seven, eight, eight under contract building. No lots available currently, but we'll get into new group and we can talk about it. I pulled up their spreadsheet yesterday and I was like, "Oh, uh, we have eight pended and they only have three premium lots." Funny cuz I sent it to an investor saying, "Buy these Arsenal lots. They're gone. Oh, no. The Arsenal lots are still there. The premium are still there. Okay. As far as like at noon today, they were still there. Okay. But maybe they'll be gone by the end of when this airs. I guarantee. Yeah, 100%. But they're they're continuing to cycle lots in. That's why you go buy something like that, though. That's why you go and mobilize into a new group duplex or something similar because you don't have to worry about the the old age. But new group, you have to have at a minimum $105,000 in capital today to be able to buy it. So it's a unless you're a houseer. Step A is going to be Little Flower Christian Park, which you own assets. I still own assets. I will hold right one a couple of those forever because I like where the neighborhood's going. You can buy a $125,000 single family home turnkey. Um make you know 100 or Wow. 1,200 is what I meant to say and rent and cover your mortgage, cover your expenses. Yeah. In three years, then you can sell that or refi into a new group, right? That's what I think all of our investors who are calling us, whether local or out of state, how they should think about this is, you say this like it's rolling equity. Yeah. Roll your class C assets. YouTube assets. I have a I have a crappy YouTube video that I'll put in the link somewhere to watch, but I was just sitting at my kitchen table. Don't bake me for my my video skills. The content is great because what I'm talking about is you take 50, you wait 3 years until it's 75, mobilize it into a better asset, do it again, do it again, do it again, and then all of a sudden after like 15 years in our city based on just standard appreciation, you can have like a 600k house owned outright that's cash flowing. That's one way to build. Uh, is it the best way to scale? I don't know. Jury's still out on that. We've had people like Rex Fischer on who uh he sits at 60% levered across 350 doors and that's the approach that he does. He's gotten the whiteboard out with us and said, "You guys are idiots. Stop trying to pile equity into really good assets and go and and leverage and here's how much you guys could actually own." We're like, "Yes, that sounds great until we have one week of seven HVACs go out because we don't have the money on the back burner to be able to go and take care of that." Um, and and that's the reality. You you alluded to it. You have to go to step one, which is if you're out of state, you come in, you buy in a C-class area that you don't need to cash flow. You put 20 25% down, great asset, get a great tenant, collect rent checks, do that again and again. Build a small portfolio and then we'll exchange that portfolio into something nicer. And you build up from there. And you ride with the rising tide of indie and the commercial development happening. All too often I get people, I want to buy Burr. I want to buy flips. I want to do this. Don't flip from out of state. You're going to lose a crap ton of money. Everybody that's flipped out of state that I know has lost a crap ton of money. I no longer represent clients from out of state that want to flip properties. It is a hindrance on me. Go talk to Evan from Mainstay. Go buy your flip. Go flip it. And when you get the equity and you're ready to buy a rental property, Roots will take care of you. Absolutely. Because I don't want the headache. I don't want to watch you lose. And I know that you're going to lose inevitably. Bird projects, I don't know. we can talk about it. Um, they're just hard to come by. So, like if I come buy one, I'm gonna go do it, right? Well, I'll share a little bit about what I'm doing with my portfolio and then I want to hear you. We have similar strategies. Um, the tactical way we're going about it is I think vastly different in some ways. Yeah. But I am I did do a burr. He my parents had a helock on their house. I said, "Hey, I'll pay this uh interestonly payment if you let me use this heliloc." They had they own their house outright. It's worth a million. So, it was like no-brainer for them to lend me 135. Not everyone has that, but you might know someone that does and did that. After seeing that that property appraised for 210 and I was in it for 135, I was like, "Okay, this is how you build equity quick." Adding value is guaranteed the fastest way to build equity quick. It is not without risk and you do have to leverage early, right? But what I've realized is you may want to get that turnkey first to get your foot in the door. Build relationships, which is what I did. Yep. First three, let me make sure. Yeah, first three were turnkey rentals. Um, still hold two of them. Sold off one. And then I was like, great, now I have some experience. I know good contractors. I have my agents, which was me, but I have my team, so to speak. Um, now let's take on some risk in add value. So, now what I'm doing to add value is a new group duplex, which will have equity day one because it's new development. You take on risk. Um, it could be worth negative value if you buy it for the wrong price. No, Tyler had people ready to buy his new group duplex at three and a half% down because they now allow FHA for New Group, which has taken We might have been the ones that burned the bridge on why they didn't take FHA. They've come full circle back around to be like, "Okay, well, we'll accept those now." But at the time of of Tyler buying his his duplex for 425, right? 475. 475. He had people ready to write offers. I think I was going to sell it to a client for 550. Like I getting ready to put in the offer with me as the agent selling it to them. and to buy a product turnkey like that, they they there's nowhere else that they can go for that and right. So, I'm doing that one and I'm doing this other duplex which came from a colleague who's in one of our masterminds had an offmarket duplex, email blasted it. I was trying to sell it. Let's sell this. I got into a multiple offer scenario with myself. Another client who was on my newsletter with another agent, which that bit me in the butt. Had to consider that, but I didn't. and they put an offer and I put an offer. I had to wave my own commission to get in the deal. And we bought that one cash uh not cash. I put in a cash offer. This is something to note. You can put in, hey, I want to continue to do financing just in case. And I I wrote that in further conditions. And I was like, I don't actually want to do cash. Our money was stupid. So pivoted to do a DSCR loan for 75% down. That's going to be a value ad. Buying for 330 should be worth 450 to 4 to 500 because it's in a great area. With that, I'm going to then sell Laurel Street. Going back to hopefully pay off half of it. Well, not half, se 25% of it as just a principal payown to be 50% levered in that cash flow. Hold that till the sunset goes down because it's in a class A area. Yeah. So, I want to have five to 10 50% to less levered assets in good areas because the RO TI, return on time invested. Nick Giuliani talks about that all the time. I love that. There's ROI, which is just straight up cash on cash. Then there's ROI, which is return on time invested, is going to be extremely high on these stable class A areas. That is my new target. So first three years ROI now I'm like okay built some equity there did those things let's go to ROI get these stable cash flowing assets um that's where I'm trying to go I'm curious though turning the table to you I actually don't know I think fully what your strategy is you've you've talked a lot about it some of it goes over my head the rolling equity and all this stuff what is where's your portfolio at what are you what are you trying to do in that space I think most days I don't know what my investing strategy is which isn't a problem because it it it just means that I'm going out and I'm just doing it, right? Trying to figure it out. Uh started with single family residence, my my own personal property to live in. Was supposed to be a house hack at the time. My fiance, now wife, mother of my child, love her dearly, did not want a house hack cuz she didn't want to live with my friends. Uh we were already moving out of an apartment. I was like, "Come on, boys. Come move into my new house." And she's like, "H no, not gonna live with them in a thousand square foot house in Avon." So, uh, we bought that, uh, kind of accidentally turned into a value ad because we wrote, I don't know, 10, 11 offers on properties in, uh, 2021. If you were a first-time home buyer in 2021, good luck, buddy. It was hard to buy a house. I had to go off market from a family member who was willing to let us come in. Kind of paid them a premium so they wouldn't go on market. Um, definitely paid a premium so it wouldn't go on market. 200. I think the one down the street like a month before sold for 185. I knew nothing. I had no agent. You were just like, "Let's get in." I literally just went to Chase Bank. It was like, "How much house can I get and how fast can I get one?" And they were like at that time 2 point or 3. 05% interest. And they were like, "Good job, kid. Your grandma put you as an authorized user on one of our credit cards. You have a little bit of credit. Nice. Go buy a $200,000 house." Wow. And then we stumbled upon this deal. Uh went to good old Meridian Title Company. That's how you knew I knew nothing. Sorry. MTC. Um, and Chase Lending, MTC was was the the the team helping me out. No agent. No experience. Just me and uh and family friend on the other side. My parents had experience like buying some rentals, but not a vast amount of experience. Um, but I guess my dad was helping me steward the deal uh from that angle. Got in immediately just tore stuff down in the house. Went straight to demo mode. Uh, LVP flooring throughout, recess lighting, did all the electrical myself. made it look like a 20 or 2020 21 house. It was like a 1960s house. Luckily, she had already done the kitchen, which was the expensive part. So, everything else was like 25 grand. It wasn't that bad to to be able to uh renovate. Mhm. Held it until we outgrew the house. Um planning for for pregnancy and also three large dogs. Um three large dogs. Two large dogs. Sorry, Chance. Chance is a little tiny dude. Um, but we we decided to to move to Danville and we were able to unlock a crap ton of equity from that. And there was this moment where I'm like, do I sell this thing? I called you. I'm like, do I sell it? Because look, I've got like an 890 payment on this thing monthly. It's Avon. It's a threebed, two bath Pinteresty style home. It's People are going to actually rent this thing out for like maybe 2500, which would be great cash flow. There are days I regret not keeping that house. Um, but I was talking to one of my dad's good friends and he goes, "You will hate yourself for not selling it right now." And I said, "Why?" He goes, "Cuz every time a tenant calls and mess something up, you put so much hard work into it, it doesn't even matter about the money. You guys slaved on that house, you're going to be like, "Come on. Why did you mess that up? Why'd you break this?" Um, and also the roof was about to go out and the AC unit was super old and the guy didn't wanted an inspection that was going to buy it. So, whatever. We sold it, got 120k out of it. And I stopped, stepped back. I'm like, okay, now it's time to actually buy real estate. Yeah. And actually buy real estate meant um I didn't know what it meant. I was like, maybe we go the the route that you're going, right? Add some value. Maybe we go turnkey. I already had a couple duplexes with uh a partnership and I hated those. Still do still own them. Section 8 rentals that are like I mean the stories go on. Those things are just great stories is what they are. Terrible investments. They're absolutely they are the equivalent of got really excited about real estate and ran through a brick wall to get them and just went and talked to a ton of people about I want to buy real estate. Help me buy it. Yeah. and those two duplexes that I already owned before uh building my own actual portfolio is what I kind of preface it with. That's the partnership side of things. Um those were all purchased at like 150k and uh there's two of them, two duplexes, 150,000 each. And those are like my four units. Yep. They sucked. So I want to do the exact opposite. I went and found single families that I knew that I didn't have to go to some sort of subsidized housing, although I think that's important and I believe in subsidi subsidized housing. That's why I still own those four units. Um, I wanted something that I could put it on Zillow and I would have people lining up the street to see it. So, I went and found the house that was nicer than every other house on the block. What people tell you not to do, right? Don't buy the nicest house on the block because you're going to get a breakthrough through the window. Check. Got the breakthrown through the window. Um, and and that's what I bought and I've been able to rent. I was actually just promoting a property. I if it's still on the market when this airs, I'm in trouble. But 1218 North Grant A, somebody needs to buy that as a rental. It's right down the street from one of my properties. It three bed, two bath could rent for 1,700. I might have a buyer for that, but and because I own a house that's a 21 that I have, 1550 on. Mhm. And I was looking at the rental today when I pulled 21 in that area. The average median rent was 1325, but I got 1550 day one after 20 showings on market on Zillow. Those of you who own rentals know how hard it is to get that many showings in one day. Um, I felt bad for the leasing agent that just literally chilled at the house all day. Mhm. Booking up. So, my strategy is put 20 25% down. I am trying to get as much rent as humanly possible for the unit. Yep. I want sticky tenants, young people that are going to stay there. Um, so far lease renewals on everything coming up this year. I'm not going to be having anything on the market. No stress. Um, I don't have any capital expenditures because they're turnkey properties. Partnering with one of my other clients who does a ton of flips. Um, although Hector, I have a bone to pick with you. He covered up a furnace and I had to buy a new furnace. But that's okay. Inspector missed it. I missed it. It is what it is. Uh, I'm just kidding. I knew the furnace was old when I bought it. It was the one foe of of the house. I thought I had like two years on the thing blew up J or like dis quicker than you think. So I don't know if I answered anything or just told you about houses without addresses. Well, actually we have done the same thing. Yeah. Which is get in where you can where the spreadsheet looks good. We literally jump on opportunity turn. Yeah. Jump on the first one that makes sense to you and you're going to pivot and learn a lot. What you don't like. That's what it is. You buy 123 Main Street. You hate 123 Main Street. So you go by 224 Main Street. Mhm. That's the name of this game. Until you find something that you fall in love with, that you can articulate the value, the win, and take it to your people. What I found is I love single families that have the long-term appreciation, that have sticky tenants that that are the king of the hill. I'll go identify one of those properties, even identify one of the tenants, and just rip off and and and copy Addison um Newwall, who you know, we we uh Refinery 46. Shout out Refinery 46 in every co-working space that he's about to take over. Um, but that guy, he just buys these single family similar to me. He identifies a tenant, goes sends it out to his network, and he's like, "Hey, do you want to an investment opportunity for the next two to three years? I'll give you 8% on your money. Give me the down payment." Yep. Boom. Gets the down payment, wires it to title, and he's able to pay back his investors via cash flow. That's what I'm doing. I don't want to put commission checks anymore. I have friends, family who would leap at the opportunity to diversify, have no time, have no experience, have no guts to go out and do it, which is what I've done with my duplexes. My brother has like no idea what addresses we actually own, but he he uh trusts the process and uh shout out Gus. He he likes to hear the stories of the crappy I love that. So, let me ask this. Like, how many properties do you want to acquire per year? I like the the idea of going one to two single families a year. Um, I think at that rate, within 10 years, I could own 10 properties outright, 100% that are like BA class rentals and amazing. Buying the the CC plus transitional areas so that the equity can be built up, take the 1031s, lump them all into to 10 really good assets. Mhm. So, basically buy 20, sell half of them, go or sell all of them, buy 10 more. Mhm. I think that is the playbook in indie. Yeah. that we are steering our clients to right now. And some get it, some want to go flip the sexy, you know, house and Yeah. They get a hard money loan, they get their gap lender, they're in it, and they make 20k and shed tears and blood. Yeah. To do that. Or you can do what you're doing, which is still a hard route, but has a lot more uh just backing to it in my opinion. Right. Well, it has more uh as long as the things don't burn down, knock on wood, right? It has a a path that is more has closer to passivity. And what I mean by that is like yes, it takes time to identify properties. I always underestimate the amount of time that I go to identify properties because we're just immersed in it. We have so many things flying across our our desk all the time. Um so we see a ton of properties. If you're not in this world, not immersed in it, it's really hard to identify properties. I don't know if the high W2 earner should actually be the one owning rental properties. I talk about this all the time. I think they should be finding a syndication that they know, like, and trust or a horse that they can bet on when through, hey, give me the down payment. I'll pay you 8%. Passive, no toilet, breaking calls. Yeah. Still invested in real estate with a um, you know, promiser. know, I'm not sure if you're going to do a lean on the property. There's also that for collateral and that's very safe. Safer than the stock market. Yeah, really is. You have an asset and it and there's there's proven history to back that up. I think that the other thing that I just like skipped over is you have the the 20 uh we have the 20-year-olds, right, that are like, "Okay, guys, I don't earn high W2, but I want to break into real estate." I had a call like this this morning and I ended the call within 7 minutes. I try to give everybody 30 minutes on an intro call, but I said, "Hey, uh, we're just going to for simplicity say John Smith." John Smith, you don't know real estate right now. You don't I I can already tell in 10 seconds because what you're saying are the words that I was saying when I was 19 years old. So, you need to clock in to your job. You need to go earn money and on March 6th or whenever the next indie investor master class is hosted by Ritz Reality Co. , you need to be there. You need to make 10 connections to go get 10 coffees. And when you end those 10 coffees, you need to ask that person, who can I who should I go meet with next? Boom. Schedule it. And you're going to have a 100 coffees over the next 100 days. And you're going to learn more than you ever knew that you could learn about real estate. And you're going to go execute on what those people are teaching you. But you're not allowed to buy anything until the 100 days are up and or you've had a 100 coffees. You're not allowed to go and talk to an agent. You're not allowed to go on showings. You're not allowed to talk to a lender because you need to take the time to educate. And I love this conversation. I think this is perfect for a newer investor to listen to this conversation. But I think that people sometimes look at where we're at now and they want to be there immediately. I want the I want the bird duplex. I want the cash flowing single family. But we started with our own home when we were dead broke. Got the FHA/ the 5% down loan. That's what they have at their disposal is the backing of the federal government. They need to like you said invest not maybe in real estate in themselves, right? Go to the networking events, go to the coffee meetings, get hire the really good agent, the roots agent and hopefully roots agent and house hack buy a single family, right? It doesn't have to be the duplex that's 350,000. You might be overleveraged doing that house hack. You or maybe you make 100k and you should do that. Maybe it's just the single family home in Brownsburg that has old disgusting paint that you can paint over in your spare time and then in 3 years that's going to be worth 100k in equity, right? and and that I think any lender because I know a lot of lenders watch this show uh especially ones that we partner with. They should be taking that resource and sending it to their clients and saying, "Hey, I know like you know, uh, cousin Joey, you talked about buying a house and I I painfully call you all the time like, "Hey, do you want to get a loan, Cousin Joey? I have a good agent." They should send them that and say, "This is how you should buy your first house." Even if Cousin Joey doesn't want to invest in real estate because if you're under 25 and you want to buy your first home, you are so far ahead of the curve that you are you're actually walking into so much so many bear traps you don't even know. Yeah. uh ahead and and I wish that somebody would have grabbed me and been like, I get it. You're tired of paying rent, but like dude, slow down and and chill because there might have I would have entered maybe a different way. I would have bought a duplex and house hacked and been like, uh Sierra, I love you, but like we're going to have a tenant living next to us, maybe not in the bedroom down the hall, but uh next door and build equity that two years. Like everyone can sacrifice two years early on, even if you have a spouse. That's the thing. Like, yeah, you might have to grow some balls and have that conversation, but if you break down the numbers for them, they're going to be much more receptive if you can advocate for it. Like, why is this good for our marriage? Because when I'm 40, I'll have more time to spend with our kids, right? Uh, and I'll still be with you because we'll not have those financial pressures that tear people apart and cause a lot of divorces. Wow, we're going way off the the beaten path here. Uh, we're saving marriages with roots realy go. I mean, we are therapists at the end of the day. Legal disclaimer, we are not therapists. Don't come to me. Uh, go to betterhelp. com. Free ad space for betterhel. Maybe they'll pay us one day. Anyways, want to switch completely, right? We've talked a lot about real estate. Um, I do know that my grandma watches the show and she's probably like fallen asleep by now because we've talked way too much about real estate. I want to get more into your background. There's a a lot of uh uh habitual things that you're doing, right? Uh, next week, turn 30. It's a big three next week. soon. I think it's the 20 I know it's the 23rd, which is maybe the week after, but coming up. And honestly, we're talking in in past anyway, so like three months ago in the 30. Um there's this like where you've gotten to. I'm reading the book uh I always say this backwards, so I'm probably saying it backwards. It's uh the gap and the gain. And right now I'm at the section in the book where it's it it's encouraging you to look backwards 10 years ago and look at the successes and build them up. Um I was reflecting this morning because of the book and I was like okay 10 years ago was 15. I was a freshman in college or freshman in high school. Not even college. What am I doing? Is a little genius. Yeah. Freshman 15 15 freshman in college. Um that's what you get when you did don't go to college. Freshman in high school. And it like said, you know, write down what your priorities were at that time in that head space. And I said, uh, being the best swimmer possible was the obsession. Uh, which girls I could take out and, um, how much I could not do the homework in the class that I'm in right now. Those were the three things on my mind. It was not earning money. It was not buying real estate. And it had nothing to do with that. And it was cool to be like, that was only 10 years ago where I'm at now. I'm now a dad. I'm a husband. I own real estate. Uh obsessed with earning money and building wealth and also having a positive attitude in life and and building relationships and helping others uh break into real estate. And I want to I I was like I love this. I want to hear it from Tyler, like 20-year-old Tyler uh going to Indie, not Indiana West, that's where I went. Going to university. Um, what is the the transformation that went from education to uh obsessed with real estate? And I don't even know if I want that. I want more of how do you go from a safety net to being an entrepreneur and listening to that little voice that says go be an entrepreneur, Tyler? Well, I did not think I would be an entrepreneur at 20 years old. Not at all. Entrepreneurship found me through habits and relationships. Um, when I was 20 years old, I was much more in a scarcity mindset. Yeah, sure, my parents did well and I had a safety net, but me personally, I was not great at making money. Didn't have this crazy high school hustle, college hustle that I was making tons of money as a entrepreneur. I was on the opposite path which was I started in college as an economics major because I did love learning about markets and wealth building although I wouldn't have maybe framed it up that way but then realized oh [ __ ] you have to get a master's degree be a professor in this path I don't want to do that I don't want to stay in school my whole life so I was like all right what is something I can at least have security and a job which was history teacher and it came from a place of scarcity literally I have nothing else to do. I don't know what to do. Get a job. Go the safe route. Public education. So interesting how it goes from like one the attitude today because I know that that's that's not truly the attitude that you have today, but I can see how it was in the past. And and and not to cut you off, but I'll I'll share like the big inflection point was I did have a really good role model in my life, which was my dad who was going through a crazy growth mindset change in his late 30s, early 40s, became an entrepreneur at age 45. Uh started two different businesses, started consuming content. Tim Ferrris, Joe Rogan, all these Benjamin Hardy who wrote The Gap in the Gain. He shared a book with me that I read when I was maybe like 23, which was uh Personality Isn't Permanent by Benjamin Hardy. Yeah. Phenomenal read as a 20-year-old. I also read The Defining Decade. All of that like gave it to all the seniors or something and it was actually a really good book. Those two books put me on a path of thinking less of security blend in and more how do you set yourself up for a thriving 30s, right? So I became obsessed with the idea of investing to create an awesome decade later. Funny story though is like you actually get enthralled with the process now when you start to do those things. Right. Right. And I would say the only natural thing I I did have going was the physical habits were really important to me because I just like the way I felt when I worked out. I like the sharpness that you felt mentally u and physically from that. So I realized okay when you start reading and start doing these things whether it's real estate or investing you can take that gym attitude the gym is kind of a microcosm for life. You can go in and rip your biceps apart. They grow back stronger and do that again and again, and you see that uh physical change. Well, this is a little more hazy, but it it's the same thing. Everything we were just talking about the past 30 minutes in real estate is the same thing. Yeah. It's just maybe doesn't look and feel it's not as physically um jarring changes. There's not a uh a bench press that you can see, lift the weight, but there are one. It's the coffee meetings. It's the going to the roots events. It's the watching the videos and taking notes, right? So, it was a compounding effect over time for you that then helped. So, yeah. So, like the the first I mean this is why the reason I became a realager was not because I thought I was going to be some luxury agent and impress people with my Cadillac Escalade like the stereotypical agent in million-dollar sunset whatever you call that show. It was because don't actually sell any real estate. just look up their Zillow profiles. It was because I love the process of buying my first home and becoming the owner of an asset because I changed. I worked on the weekends on my house instead of getting drunk at the bars and then later saw the value of that and was like, damn, if I can do that with my own home, maybe I can help others do that and have a career. Yeah. So, it literally was this it the compound effect. I love that someone said this. It's not like about habits. It's more about the compound effect, which is a weird way because you have to do the habits to get the benefits of the compound effect, but the compound effect is in essence start small, stack wins, which you have a small domino that leads into a bigger domino, which leads into a bigger domino. Yeah. So, you start by cleaning cleaning up your bedroom, reading a book, which leads into buying your first home, cleaning up your house, which leads into starting a business. You actually do see that in a lot of people. Yeah. Like you know, so it's like you have to have the small wins to the medium wins to the bigger wins. If I reach 50, I know I'm going to have probably millions of dollars to steward. Not out of selfishness and pride. I just think I will have had to take the responsibility to have those type of assets. Same for you, you know. And and I believe that I was reviewing our clip from Nate Spangle's episode that we did and he was talking about, you know, just get the [ __ ] up in the morning and if you real popped off, people resonated with that because if you get up and you're actually going out there and doing the thing, there's no reason why you won't get the win that you're after. Um, lazy people don't get wins. And yes, you know, you can reframe that to like stay up late because you're going to keep grinding, but I truly believe that, you know, the 5 a. m. club is is a club for a reason. That's a club of of billionaires because that's what it exists for. Um, there's when you were talking about I think that I always ask that question and I probably did on the first internal episode that we recorded is because I'm like, how do you go through that mindset shift on a long term? For me, it was like a cosmic wreckage of uh losing athletics and and the ability to do athletics. And it was like, oh, that was my path to college. I'm I'm only going to to swim, right? That's the only reason that I want to be at a university. I don't care about the education piece of it. Um, and that was my obsession at the time. Like I said, reflect 10 years ago, it was girls swimming and, you know, how to flunk this class. Um, it wasn't actually good habits. When I lost swimming, it made me create those habits cuz I lost my safety net, right? If for your entire life you're obsessed with like, okay, I'm going to go to the Olympics. I'm going to be able to be a professional athlete and that's the way the like direction, that's my next step in the horizon, that's what you do. But you lose that and you're like, oh shoot, where do I go? What do I do? Um, which sidehustle school, you brought this up, your dad's uh nonforprofit that he's working on and I'm obsessed with it. Very immersed in it. uh tomorrow going to be leading at Avon and and uh I love the opportunity to get in front of high school kids and talk about entrepreneurship because when I reflect back on my senior year that's all that it was trying entrepreneurship I started a company called Simple Co. It was a t-shirt brand had a lawnmowing company called uh I don't even know. Give me money and I'll blow the grass. And you probably felt like you weren't making much progress. I mean at the beginning No, I was just annoying people losing money. Same thing. I wanted to start this garden bed. I made this garden beds that you could pick up. They were wooden and I was like I made a website. I sold one to my uncle and I was like I'm never doing that again. It was like slaving away for like five hours to make 90 bucks. I was like, "This is the dumbest thing I've ever done." Yeah. But, uh, building the website, getting the sale led to Roots Realy, right? If I didn't do that, absolutely. You You got to You got to basically jump in the pool and drown and tread water a little bit before you're swimming like a champion. Yeah. And and I had I had one person in my life uh that was ahead of me. Just a little bit ahead of me. That had a media company that had taken the leap, moved out to LA, and was doing the thing. And before he left, he had graduated high school and like that you can if you have enough credits, you can graduate in December or whatever. And for 6 months, everybody was like, he's not going to college. Why did he graduate early? Why is like he's not furthering his ed education? But he was grinding behind the scenes building a media company that's worth like millions now. Um, and it's really cool to see. But he said one thing that that stuck with me. He said, "There is why go to college when there's a Barnes & Noble up the road?" Wow. makes no sense. Why would you go to college? Because I can go into Barnes & Noble and spend 25 bucks, buy a book, and learn an entire semester's worth of course material there. So, I went home, ran into the living room, and I'm like, "I'm not going to college. I'm going to Barnes & Noble." My parents are like, "Huh?" Uh, zero to 100, right? Because I it made sense. Like, you just pick up the books and you educate. For me, I had that cosmic switch. Had somebody where I was like, "All right, I'm going to go try it." Tried like 17 different side hustles. None of them stuck and wound up getting to a point where I'm like, "Oh, real estate. It makes sense." And never looked back. And that that's where we are and how we got in. Well, real estate is the the dumbest entrepreneurs can get rich in real estate. Oh, yeah. Because you could buy a property overpriced and in 10 years be a millionaire. Maybe not a millionaire, but have lots of equity, right? It's super easy to mess up and still win because everyone needs a home. Time cures all. Yeah. Time cures all. And it's land is a scarce asset. The fundamentals are just so that's why I'm in real estate, too. I didn't know how to make the next Tesla or the next Amazon. We talked about this episode one. Oh, that's exactly what it was. That seems so risky and ludicrous to me. But real estate, it's like, oh, I can sell homes. Everyone needs a home. I can invest in homes. Everyone needs a place to live. Yeah. The only way that I could feel confident not having a W2 job was knowing that I just sat and and figured out how to make the next Dyson vacuum. Figured out how to make my product a verb in people's houses. I love Yeah, I love the obsession with how Dyson became what it is today. Shout out to the founders episode with Dyson. Yeah, that is that is an amazing episode. That book is even better. Um and I personally say often, "Hey, I'm going to Dyson." And I'm like, "Ah, that's so cool." I didn't know how to create that though. And uh you need the company name, right? You need to be able to to do it to have like you have to have the it moment. Yeah. But you're also going to have sacrifice in abundance and go out and and be able to earn. The last thing selfishly I want cuz you know most people don't ever get to this far in the episode. I just want the clip to be able to share with team members coming into our company uh what a day in the life for Tyler looks like. And I don't need like, you know, we can bounce back and forth because I'm pretty sure that our days look awfully similar. Um, work, right? And and I know for me, well, yeah, I know. Yeah, it's it's the habits in the morning that uh mean the most. So, I I would love to How's your morning start? Um, yeah. I don't know how deep you want to go in terms of brushing teeth. I'll skip past some of the minutia, but I when I was uh 27, I started a uh daily uh devotional and prayer habit. Yeah. And I'm the type that I have to have a structured habit. Otherwise, I'll get busy relying on myself, never speak to the highest power, God. So, I had to build that into my day, right? You'll be needing a newsletter all of a sudden. Yeah. I I actually It's pretty bad. I am giddy to start work or work out. So I have to sacrifice that first 30 to to an hour. So what I do is um I'm going through Acts right now. I'm I just finished uh John. John leans into Acts. So I'm reading a chapter of the Bible. Um then I'm reading Oswald Chambers uh utmost for his highest amazing devotional. It has 365 days. Then um journal prayer and then that that sets me up for the rest of the day. Number one, I could end the day there and die and be fulfilled. So, number one, there's that. And then, um, going into, and I don't know how deep you want to get into that. I can circle back to that. But then going into I have to work out next because I'm the type of person at 5:00 p. m. I don't want to do burpees and run. I don't even know how gyms are in service at 5 p. m. These people doing that, I'm like, that takes more balls than I have. I don't want to do that. I I want to relax and eat dinner and talk to my family. One of the only reasons I won't do the 75 hard. Yeah, it's freaking hard. That's why they call it that. Um, so I'll go to the gym and I rotate between lifting and running. Running is accessible. You can do it anywhere. Treadmills are ubiquitous. Uh, now that it's freezing outside or you can run outside. And um, I just like doing the the mixture. Cardio, you feel I say if you want to look good, lift. If you want to feel good, run. Uh, do cardio. Same thing. So, I'll do one of those two by then. And then maybe I'll sauna if I'm at the gym or have a sauna at my house, too. So, by then I'm like, "Dude, I'm already on the highest mountain peak ever by like 8:00 a. m. , right?" So, then um and then his co-founder texts him one text and he's completely down into the dumps. No, then it does go into a cyclone of business after that, which that is where the struggles begin getting too bogged down into a deal that's going haywire or we have a problem with roots. It's fun, but that's actually when you do the Elon Musk thing. Elon Musk 52 weeks a year solves the hardest problem in this business 52 times. He goes to the front line of the conveyor belt, talks to the engineer, and then next week does the same thing. Yeah, that's what we do with roots. Okay, we have a problem with this podcast is getting 70 views. I want it to get a,000 views. That's literally my problem right now is like, okay, I needed I'm texting 25 people each episode saying subscribe. That's the difference between us and some random team. Like we actually go straight to the problem and fix it, right? Not to toot our own horn horn, but like it is the truth. We do do that. And so it's going straight to the problem that needs fixed. It's the highest leverage problem. So in early uh 2025, I do have to make money. I like to make money the first six months to have a really chill last six months and focus on highlevel expansion fun big picture stuff from like July to December. Um so I very rarely work that hard in December the holidays and stuff I take that time to recharge. So right now I am doing heavy lead generating prospecting like I'm trying to sell one new group duplex a month. So texting people, emailing people the value, calling people, going to showings is my day-to-day. That will switch by August. It will be getting into the lab with you and being like, "Okay, how can we 10x roots? Who can we bring on the podcast that's fire?" So it'll change, but it's solving the highest leverage problem. So every day looks vastly vastly different right now. Um, but then by the evening time at 5:00 PM I put my phone 5:3 6ish, put my phone in another room, have dinner with my wife, uh, take care of my son while she's cooking, get some quality time with him for at least 30 to 45 minutes. Uh, we clean up, I'll watch him take a bath, uh, support my wife. He goes to bed. Guess what? Work's not over. back on the phone, back on the emails, tying up the rest of the day, laying out the clothes for tomorrow, writing on the journal. Okay, I didn't send this guy follow-up. I didn't tell Max this. I have a journal that's like constant to-do list, which is separated between big picture. I have big picture things, which are what moves the needle for the company, and then small picture, I call it tactical to-do, which is it's a list of names. I'm not going to read these names because that'd be awkward, but like I literally have names of people that in six months will have closed on a property. Yeah. Because I took the time to value that. You're on Tyler's hit list. No. Right. And and some of those are your name circled on his wall. But those are opportunistic uh moments in these people's lives where they have the cash, they have the equity, and they want to make moves. So, it's letting that platform take shape. Right. No, you're manifesting for them by writing their name down. It's always their choice. And real estate sometimes is like, "Are you going to sell me a home when I don't want to?" No one who's wiring $50,000 is doing it cuz they don't want to. Yeah. But guess what? You do have to have a relationship that says, "I value enough to know you can do this." Yep. And that's what we do. It's the best job in the world. So, it's stewarding people's time, energy, and resources to invest in real estate, which is a super privileged job. I think it's literally as important as maybe not being a pastor, but like it's pretty important. And you can do it with that level of intentionality. Or you can be the sleazy salesperson that burns bridges and then is out of the business in 5 years. But all the best real estate agents I know are actually really good people, right? I'd be friends with them as really good people that are in flow with their clients. I have two people that like they they're on my list and I need to just get a phone call with them because I I keep hanging out with them just as friends because they're relationally. Um but I know that they're going to buy a house this year and and people gravitate to who they're friends with, right? But like low-key they maybe could call the solo agent cuz I haven't jumped on it enough. Oh man. And it happens and that's like but I would be I do want to ask you a different question or you can answer that one. No, I'm also fascinated with the struggles of an entrepreneur. Nick Bear um has recently gotten he's one of my um role models. Um he has a supplement company, does a ton of content, really good content on fitness and building business. Anyways, he on his podcast started talking about his like struggles of like home life, balancing home life, uh ego, even like just sharing like raw stuff about being entrepreneur. He's like, "It sounds sexy, but let me tell you how hard it is." Yeah. And I'm curious for you. What do you struggle with? I mean, from the outside looking in, it's like Max is crushing it. He's got a ton of money. It looks like uh sle crap ton of real estate, has investments, has a kid. What is the struggle? Yeah, I mean, the the struggles are are vast. They're daily, they're short, and they're quick. Um, and and what I mean by that is being an entrepreneur is having the skin to have what to most people would ruin their year ruin 10 minutes and that's it. Boom. Move on with my day. Dang. Somebody takes me off. Somebody disrespects me in in whatever way, which you've had your fair share of. And I go, "Oh man, that sucked. How do we not do that next time?" And I hop on the phone with the individual and I go, "Hey, I'm going to be honest with you. like what what you just did wasn't great. That wasn't the way that I do business. That wasn't the way that I want to engage in a relationship and here's how I'd like to do it next time. Whether that's a lender, a property manager, an employee, a whatever. Um, and we get over it. Or sometimes I go, I can't talk to that person right now because I'm not going to be nice. Um, and and I just just move on past it. But that's that's taken a long time to get over. what that used to look like was destructive like within my marriage because I would come home and I would wear the skin of of being ticked at whoever. Um and and I would just vent and unload. And I realized that venting actually does not solve any problems. It is just as bad as gossiping, right? Um which which damages and and causes more problems because the wounds still open. Um so just trying to to adjust things head or address things head on. What does that habit look like in the moment by moment? Yeah. Um, for me it has been a struggle between uh reactive and proactive. So, I mean, I'm a systemsoriented guy. That's the whole reason why we we partnered is because you're the opposite of a systemsoriented guy. Um, and I've tried to put systems in your life to make it easier. um and you've also brought into my life just going after the thing and and having that uh idea spark and then putting the pieces together. Um so for me being that I have that more rooted in in systems, I try to make everything a proactive action. So sometimes that looks to other people like I'm doing way too much work because I'm reviewing everything that goes out, reviewing all the things in the backend before it goes live. But the worst thing that I would I would want to happen is like something is published from roots or something uh an agent because I don't really work with buyers directly anymore. I have a team that can help buyers way better than I can, right? Uh hand selected and and grown up those agent site that we have with someone who has bandwidth, right? It's a win. And so there'll be times where those agents go on a showing and they say something that maybe isn't what they should say. Um and instead of being reactive to it, I try to be proactive. Mhm. So, like those agents are trained to go, "Yo, I just told this person that like maybe they shouldn't do a sewer inspection. You should call them and be like, "Hey, uh, Kyle's never called me and said this." That was a random example, but I'm just going to use Kyle's name. Hey, Kyle's an idiot. He needs to do you need to do a sewer inspection or whatever it might be. Maybe that was Ty that said him that. Yeah. Um but uh the indirect way to to answer is to put uh the right people in place to diffuse bombs. And so when I get a problem, it's usually like the mega bomb that is about to go off and uh I turn into you know like the the bomb people that come in the mask. You're diffusing the mega bombs, right? Whereas other people are doing the small but that gives you the capacity. This I'm learning a lot in this conversation. I mean cuz whenever you get bogged down in a small bomb diffusing situation Yeah. it reduces your capacity it does to do the big bombs right and uh for example like uh somebody showing up 5 minutes late to GNC like that's a worry that I have every day. I could worry about that all day long like oh man he didn't show up and I just I scream at him on the phone to to get there on time. He's going to get there next time. No, the reality is I'll just fire the guy the second time that he does it and go hire somebody else because they're replaceable at that store. I've never had to fire anybody at GNC because they know that that's my attitude towards the store. Um, and I just having like that's my system, that's my protocol and they know the protocol. I'll share something today. I had Lily who manages my properties. She she manages properties internal and we had a faucet break on a a unit and I know there's people that could have let that take half their day right of like what what are we going to replace it? Should we replace the part? Should we get the whole thing? It's $139. I said get replace the whole thing. It's $139. Send me three options from Lowe's. I'll pick one. And then the plumber wanted this one. She wanted this one. I wanted I was like we're doing this one. It's over. Done. Put put it away. And yeah. Okay. my cash flow on unit A of 2415 Broadway is gone for month it doesn't matter right you have to that's a 10-minute 5 minute problem right two-minute problem even and that is shouldn't take too long I love that you say that because the one person in my life that knows to remind me when I'm being silly over a two-minute problem and making it a two-hour problem is my wife and there was a real example recently and I mentioned it on the NDE podcast I maybe talked about it on like seven episodes here because it was bothering me I didn't want to replace a stupid furnace at my rental property. It didn't help a lot. And uh I prolonged it and kept having the people go out, change the the furnace filter, change the batteries, do all the things cuz it went against your expectations. I literally accumulated a,000 bucks in tech fees for this stupid furnace that I should have replaced a month earlier. And that's what Nick Giuliani says. When you know there's a problem in your rental, do it immediately. Don't think about it. Don't look back. Yep. And I'll forever do that. Most people don't have the the thick skin to be a Most people don't have the thick skin to do any of this crap. I mean, it it it plagues me daily. It's not easy, right? It's a lot of money and you're kind of like, "Oh, I should sell it." And I know family members who fire sold their properties cuz they thought the sky was falling in 2022, right? And it's like they could have held on and it'd be worth 10% more and they would have replaced that furnace and made 15k from the 4k replacement in holding it, right? And it's it's just not easy. They say like um you know if you own stocks and you look at it daily like you'll never make a dollar in your life because you'll want to sell every 5 seconds, right? Because it's just up down up down up down. But, uh, yeah, my wife is the one person in my life that knows if I'm allowing a 2-minute problem to become a 2-hour problem, uh, meaning something small, making it way bigger than it is. She looks at me and she goes, "Replace the furnace. You're being an idiot. Like, you have the money to do it." She'll she'll first ask, "Are we going to go broke over the furnace?" And I go, "No." She goes, "You can't sell without a furnace either. Is the person sleeping actually at night without any heat?" And I'm like, "Potentially." They haven't said that, so I don't know if I believe them, but they are they have they have a a portable space heater that they're surviving on and seven blankets that are all like as thick as a bear and they're and that's a thing that we haven't touched on enough, which is the tenant resident side, right? I am now realizing if you treat your tenants well, you'll make up tons of capital expenditures that you could have fredded over, taken a week to get quotes. Just replace the damn thing and they're not going to be vacant, right, in a month or two later. Yeah. Uh and and the the furnace was never off for a night. If it was, it would have gotten replaced. I was limping the thing on. But the way that I uh the tenant resident part that you bring up as an owner, my one mission is to treat long-term rentals as if they're a hotel stay. And what I mean by that is if you're ever at a Hilton and the power goes out, they're going to do something dramatic to like ensure that the power doesn't go out, right? they might just go and like fly up to the sun and and connect some bolts up there to make it or steal power from the guy next door because it's a hotel and and if something drastic happened, you would be compensated for it. Um, and the reason that that's been brought into my life is because my first apartment flooded and they left me there with mold and I'm like really allergic to mold and they just left me living in the apartment and uh that's what made me buy a house. I was like I don't want to ever be out of control anymore. I had a plumber come and look at the unit. I was ready to just fix the thing because I was so fed up and I was at an apartment building and that happens to a lot of people who rent. And so for me, I was like when I when I am the the guy raking in all the cash, I will treat people kindly and I will treat people like they're humans and like they're staying at, you know, the Best Western and give them that Best Western. I've never thought of it that way. It's dealing with tenant issues is admittedly my my least favorite part about being an investor. I'm just gonna be really honest. It's not something I take tons of joy in pride in. Oh, I'm the best superhero landlord. I have some I hired someone else to literally take care of it to get on the phone for 2 minutes instead of 45 minutes. You know what I mean? To buffer. So, you right. You have to have those systems. But the the moral of the story is I was going to say I think I I have the self-management and I still am on the phone probably less time than you are because I have the systems. Right. But I I I think the the way to tie a bow on that is like you you simply can't be a shitty landlord and stay in this business for a long time. You'll pay some sort of repercussion. Maybe not immediately monetarily. Yeah. You try to save a dollar, you'll lose a hundred. Yeah. It just happens to everyone. We've seen too many burnt literally I saw a real yesterday in Indie. Steve Layman, shout out. He was at a burnt down property that had squatters. the there was a ghost PM company, not going to name names, that was managing it, taking care of the problems. They let squatters get in. They lit the place on fire. I have to follow Steve Lman now. I don't think I do. They torched the place and this thing is like stories. Who knows if insurance will cover it due to negligence. I'm not sure, but they they've literally lost probably $300,000 with that unit. I mean, it was torched. And that's that's the it's an extreme example, but it happens, right? Two people all the time that don't like, yeah, I might not love to get on the phone and talk life with my tenants, but I swipe the damn credit card immediately once it needs to be swiped, right? And and let you identify the problems and go through all the the proper channels to do so, right? Of course, you're not going to fix a faucet that that's working and just to upgrade it, but you have to make those hard decisions, right? and trade-offs like, yeah, we're running a business and if the business fails, I don't want to be an investor anymore. Houses aren't managed and the whole economy goes to to crap. Right. Right. That's what you see in California. Nobody wants to be an investor there. Huge housing problem. Yeah. Huge housing problem. So, I mean, they only own it because they know it's going to be worth a million dollars. They don't own it for the cash flow there. They're losing thousands of dollars on these assets. Yeah. Yeah, it's honestly crazy because at the end of the day, you buy dirt and dirt is what is all of the investment and and that's the I mean that gets into a lot of macroeconomics, but um I think the way in which I approach being a real estate investor is the same as a business owner is the same as a husband is like you show up be a good person and you know dividends will pay long long term. So, never trying to save a dollar, always trying to to get the hundred. Um, you said save a dollar, lose a hundred. You're going to give me the hundred if I save the dollar. We'll take or us and our listeners will take the hundred. Two plus want to transition into We have not at all talked about how listeners can actually like take action. Yeah. With us like Yeah. We love to make these, but we're not just doing this to get on the mic and spout out siloqu. Yeah. Like I would love to share like what what should listeners do that want to take action and take the next step with I think it's similar to what I I said on the phone with John Smith earlier today that wasn't ready to buy and that's uh the best place to take action with us if you're local is to just go to roots. co/investorvents coinvesvents, I believe. It's just events now. It's just events. Thank God. But you can just go to roots. co and then click events. Yeah, it's not that complex of a website. Um or it'll be linked below. Come to our masterclass events. Happy hours are great. Happy hours are great to get there, have a beer, and introduce yourself to people. If you're somebody like me and if you're going to go to the happy hour event, you're gonna grab a beer and sit on, you know, the wall and not come out and talk to people or like act like you're not at the event because you're antisocial. Not antisocial, I'm just an introvert. Introvert. But, uh, I would say the master class is probably better for you because at some point during the event, you're going to get to sit in a random chair next to somebody, right? And that's where you can one-on-one talk to people. Those happen quarterly. Um, and and we have them all planned out for this year. I'm pumped for those. Um, and even if you're not in Indie, like we have multiple out ofate investors that fly in for the master class, see some homes, they'll come to a master class. I think that's a great way to get educated. It's a perfect time to get off of an airplane in Indie, have the 15minute commute to Hos, which is all that it is. You can get an Uber if you need and then drive for dollars on the next day and fly out on Friday. It's a Thursday's event. Fly out on Friday. But you get to drive for dollars and go to Christian Park, go to Little Flower, go to all these places that we talk about. Um, happy hours happen every single month. Usually the third Thursday, sometimes the fourth Thursday. Just check our website for when they are. Or just show up at Refinery 46 and a nice guy named Cam will tell you that there's not a happy hour if there isn't. Um, another place and another way to engage is we do have an investor course. Uh, it's like 97 bucks. Use code max 15 so I can get the commission for it and it'll be $75. Um, and what you'll find behind that that payw wall is a course that breaks down every single area and all the the the terms that you need. Yep. Um, you need to take that course before you buy your first home, I think, to understand investment. You'll be vastly ahead of every first-time home buyer, right? For 75 bucks, 100%. Hugely worth it. The last and most important way I think the most important education you can get from Tyler and I is by way of our newsletters. Both of our newsletters uh are full of info. Absolutely. Like they're my proudest thing that I publish. Mine goes out weekly. Tyler's goes out whenever Tyler press live, which I think is weekly. Bi-weekly. Bi-weekly. I never know. I just see it in the inbox and I read every single one. Supposed to be by weekly on Thursday. I holidays and all. Yeah. Laging a little bit. I'll put the subscribe links down below if you're not already subscribed to those. Uh we have over 1500 people that read them that love them. I promise we won't spam you with just real estate deals. It's not our flow or our jam. I mean, the the reality is we're droning on. So, hopefully people are still with us and they haven't left. Redemption went the infomercial is almost ending. No, but for real, I think people will uh be listening that want to take value. The uh interact with us like the people that buy in realize, oh, they're real people that I can text and call. They're not some they're not Mr. Beast, right? We we are not like we have accessibility. And you said that we'll give everyone 30 minutes. Yep. When you see the call button on Max's newsletter, book a call. Yeah. He'll take it and you'll learn something. It might end up being seven minutes because I'll realize in seven minutes that I know exactly what to tell you because it's exactly what you should go do. Uh which I know that that guy got off the phone with me today and was like, uh, booked all the events and I'll be there and was hype, right? Yeah. because I'm not going to tell him to go talk to email. We'll give you a next I say my our process is like action set up a call and action step and sometimes is come to a master class. Sometimes it's dude call call this mortgage lender. You're ready to freaking go while you're on the sidelines. Yeah. And you can choose if you want to go or not, you know. Yep. Um, and and I think that that is that's the most important step is to engage and to take uh what feels like daunting or wasting time could potentially feel that way. Uh, it's not. We love it. We love being able to engage with people. My calendarly has parameters so that you're not wasting my time. I'm famous. Um, and it might be a month until you can get on the phone with me. And I apologize because baby Grayson is way more important than you are. Um, and bath time is fun. So with that note, scrubby dub tub and peace. Peace.