Tenant-First Investing: The Wild Real Estate Strategy That’s Actually Working

Landlords are exploiting tenants, right? So like my investments. Correct. Correct. And that's not how it should be. Well, what if I became a landlord through the lens of my tenants? So if I chose the tenant instead of the property and I let it be a tenantled process, that's a way that I could redeem, which leads to where tenants then don't get into these like fight, flight, or flee situations because of exploitive landlords. Instead, they build relationships and they stay longterm. Welcome back to the roots podcast. I am Tyler Lingal joined by my co-host Max Moore. co-founders of Roots Realy Co. Uh today we are we have a guest who is truly redefining what it means to be a real estate investor, Addison Newell. Addison isn't just buying properties, he's building sustainable investment strategies that prioritize tenant first, ensuring cash flow in markets where most people think it's dead. He's also the founder of Pufani Homes, which operates Pufaan. I'm not I'm not I'm never Funan. Yeah. Wow. Good start, Tyler. uh which operates a unique tenant first investing model, meaning he actually finds the right tenant before even acquiring the property. Um he also is behind Kiote Investing, which focuses on long-term real estate strategies, and he's been instrumental in managing Refinery 46, one of Indy's premier co-working spaces. Uh on top of all of that, I'm getting to the end of my intro. Uh he's diving into commercial development with Needhammer building uh a new co-working and mixed use space on the east side of Indianapolis right in the middle of a development corridor where he's also the owner of many residential investments. Um beyond all of that uh Addison has a deep understanding of how people work best. Uh he recently led a workshop with our team roots on the six working geniuses a framework that completely transformed the way we collaborate and operate. Uh so today we're going to jump into everything he's doing and and dive deep. Uh was that enough of an intro for you? Yeah. Yeah, man. That's great. Also, while we're in it, Trent Trent said you guys are ready for another workshop on the six working geniuses. Oh, he told me he told me I need I need to nudge you guys now. Just kidding. Do we have a new edition? I'm not going to say the name. Yeah, we do have we have some new additions possibly, too. Um man, that was that was quite the intro. And the thing that I love most is that's all active stuff, right? I want to jump back for a second. Uh, I know that you have a background in urban education. You have a background not living in the United States and you're doing like a smorgus board of things, right? Your CPA is probably pretty busy as a result of you and and your taxes. A lot of text. Um, was there a role model that shaped the entrepreneurial spirit for you? Uh, early on, uh, no. Uh, recent role model probably in the last four to five years, Rex Fischer. Uh definitely uh somebody who when I moved back to the US um a former roommate of mine, Rex was his real estate agent. Uh and that roommate when I came back said, "Man, you've got to meet this guy. You're so much like him." Uh so when Rex and I sat down for the first time, I remember looking across the table and being like, "This guy has to be my mentor. I've never met anyone else that like thinks similarly that I do and how I want to do all these different things and he's actually successful, you know? So like, how can I follow after this guy and imitate him? I love sitting down with Rex because you everything that you say and his and he responds he's already done, right? Especially in the lane of real estate, it's like had all these thoughts of how I can be successful and he's like, "Yep, yeah, it works. You can do it." Um, how like when did the entrepreneurial bug kind of bite you? Where did that that grow from? Well, yeah. So, if I do go back to to college, so um I always have this great story of uh I was a triple major. So, I studied economics, business, admin, and political science. And I went to a mock interview and the person looked at my uh resume and they said, "Most people would look at this and be really impressed. I look at it and see someone who can't decide what they want to do." And I was like, "You couldn't be more accurate." I'm like, "I actually don't know what I want to do. I thought I wanted to be a constitutional lawyer. I joke I still want to be a constitutional lawyer. I really believe if I wanted to make an impact in this like country, that was actually like the best route to go." Uh but for me and my faith, God had just a different journey for me and was like, "All right, go do this thing. go do this thing. And that first thing after college was Teach for America like Tyler did. Um I never wanted to be a teacher. Had no interest in working with kids or impacting kids. I think I wrote on the question of what's your experience with children? I said besides being one, none. They and they took that. They accepted me despite that answer. Um and uh but I went into it and it was just hey if I'm in this I'm going to be resilient. I'm going to be the best I can be. And uh Tyler, you know TFA is not for the faint of heart. I think I even tried to like talk you out of doing it when you came and visited my classroom. Subtly. You did a little too subtly. Yeah. A boring sign. No, just kidding. Yeah. But it's that that this idea of I remember going home um probably after having my first like ever panic attack from when I was teaching. Um and I had a decision like am I going to cave and quit or am I going to be really great at this? And so I went to my roommate at that time and I said if I'm going to teach I'm going to be the teacher of the year in the state of Indiana. So, I'm gonna be like the best possible middle school math teacher there is. So, that thing's always been in me of like whatever I do, I'm going to do it the absolute best way that I can. Uh, when my faith came along, uh, it was like how do I do what I do for like the glory of God and for the benefit of the people that I meet. So, whether it was in the classroom, going overseas to South Africa, uh, being a missionary over there, keep teaching. That's when I started my first business though. Uh, and it came out of the vein of I can be this missionary. These people come here, they need money, they need support, they need help. Um, a kid who goes home and has no food, you can teach them systems of linear equations, but it means nothing if they have nothing at home, their parents don't have a job, uh, they have housing instability, all these different things. So, how could I then come in and create employment opportunities for, and I hate saying it this way, but converting liabilities to our ministry into assets? Um I always love to give this one example of a woman who we fostered her son. It was supposed to be for 4 days. It turned into four months. Um and then I was able to employ her through the first business that I started which we made handgood um handmade African animals like crocheted African animals. I was able to employ her and she started making so much money on the side doing that for me. It outpaced her janitorial job. she had enough stability that she then started fostering kids from our program. So we went from fostering her kid to giving her enough stability where she was fostering kids through our program now which is just like a full circle moment of like oh this is what happens when you give wages to somebody and they can like provide for themselves right u so that moment gripped me and kind of catapulted me now that back in the US and doing all sorts of other things of oh business is the way to like actually help people. Yeah I want to share a quick story from your teaching days. Yeah, you may not remember this or you might. When I was considering what I wanted to do, I was like, "Okay, there's one guy who's like kind of doing something cool, similar major as me." Oh, Addison. I was like, "Can I visit your classroom?" And what I remember was, okay, these students really are difficult and super challenging, but I think that was what made me want to do it cuz I was like, whoa, he's really swinging for the fences with it. I was more impressed at the tenacity and that's what made me decide to do it which was a whole uh can of worms of like whoa like a lot of sleepless nights a lot of many depression episodes of teaching but I think it is that tenacity that um you probably gained from that teaching experience which is probably everything you do now has some of that so I just thought it was it it connect the dots for some of our listeners that like you were a pivotable uh role model in doing TFA for Yeah. Yeah. Well, and a lot of people um man, they come out of college and maybe they get an office job and it's like boring. Uh go go teach in a urban school where kids like absolutely hate you and hate middle school math and like man, you will build a thick skin that like and I noticed this in other jobs that I had or when I was in the missions field and dealing with stuff or in corporate America or now in the entrepreneurial space like I expect people to say no. I expect people to be like uh at odds with me at times and that rejection therapy. Yeah, absolutely. That's what teaching is like nonstop rejection. I say the reason I'm good at sales is because I couldn't get 30 kids to listen to me. I could get one successfully and so my my odds and my expectations were so low that I was like I know it takes 10 times for someone to like register something. Yeah. Yeah. and the guy who I went to a TFA um thing in Chicago. So in college I was a resident assistant over like an apartment building and one of the tenants in the building like uh he or residents he wanted to go to this TFA thing in Chicago. So that's actually how I uh was introduced to it. He didn't want to go by himself. So I rode the train with him into Chicago, went to the event and a guy at this dinner just said he's like you are used to getting A's and praise and all these things that define success for you. He's like, "When you go into teaching, you have to flip the script because you will be a failure for two years." He was like, "You'll have like marginal improvements and like you'll have little glimpses, but on the grand scheme, you are going to fail a lot more people than you like succeed with." Um, and just that changing of your definition of success is is huge. Um, and I meet when we have interns at refinery or uh even new hires, the first conversation I have with them is like when I give you feedback or you submit something to me, expect feedback. Expect a lot of red pen. Expect a lot of like you didn't do it right and I'm very proud of what you sent me. Uh, because you you moved us 10 yards down the field. My job is to move us the next 40. You'll move us another 10 and then I'll get us in the end zone. Right? It's just shaping what is actually success. And a lot of people come out of the education system with like really a fragile mindset of like I need to be perfect all the time. I can't ask for help. I can't there's no constructive collaboration. And you both know this, but in the entrepreneur space like or adult space like everyone's making it up. Everyone's making it up all the time. Um we're all just like flying by the seat of our pants. And like the minute that reality can be broken for you, you can have a lot more mercy on yourself and just be like, "Oh, okay. like I don't know it, but I'll like figure it out, you know, as we get going. And the second that you give up on trying to figure it out, that's when it gets destructive, right? Uh, one thing you said that sparked in my head, entrepreneur, I think, can be um just replaced with having energy and effort towards one thing. Um, that's that's a commonality that I I continue to hear people who are in similar positions that I am, that you're in, that you're in. It's like we went, we tried something, it worked, we kept doing it. We kept doing it better than everybody else. Even if that's being a janitor or being the guy that makes the fries at McDonald's, right? You're in a position where you're at now today. So, be the best possible fry bagger guy that you possibly can be. Um, and and that will continue to move the needle further in your time in South Africa. How long were you a mission? So, I was there for three years. My wife was there for seven. Full time. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Uh I love the story of the handmade goods and helping somebody else realize entrepreneurship like being an entrepreneur when that's not culture or common. Uh it's the that old adage, right? Teach a man to to fish and heal food for life. Um how is do you have a pulse on how that business is going today? Yeah. So really funny uh or uh layered story I guess. So we also fostered a brother and a sister the for the whole three years that we were there. So my wife and I, we got married. 2 days later, I moved to South Africa with her. About 3 or 4 months after that, we took in a brother and sister. That's our honeymoon. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. So extended. Um Yeah. And that's a whole other podcast. Uh that that marriage journey. Um but we took in a brother and sister about 3 months in or so into our marriage, which I do not recommend to anyone who is newly married. Don't start being foster parents like within six months of like getting to know each other in that cycle. Uh but we did it and um it was amazing and we learned so much. Uh so really our entire we've been married this will be eight years later this year. Um and we've basically been parents the entire time of our our whole whole marriage. Um the goal with the business was always to get our two children that we fostered their mom uh who's the same age as me um was to get her to come and take over the business while we were back in the US if if we ever left. I mean, we planned to be in South Africa forever. Uh, but a little thing called COVID and a visa problem happened that led to us not being able to go back to South Africa. So, um, I was like prepping their mom to take over the business uh, once we knew we weren't going to be able to stay in the country. Um, and then COVID happened and we cut off we we probably lost a full year that we could have still been there. Um, so really the business died except for one piece, the woman I mentioned earlier who we fostered her son for like four months and then she's went into fostering other kids. She's still going and she was like my foreman if that was a real term for a position. Um, she was the one I I called and was like, "Hey, like so and so is not doing their stuff." And she's like, "Got it. Just go and just like lay down the law on people." So, she's still getting like custom orders and she texts me on WhatsApp of like, "Hey, somebody asked me to make them this really intricate like leopard and all these different things. What should I charge?" And so, like I still have like the price sheets and stuff and I'll like, "Oh, you should do this and all these different things blah blah blah." So, I still get to coach her from like time to time. And then, um, so even though the entity I started isn't exist, isn't continuing to go, um, she's still going. And then we took the proceeds in the first year of that business and we reinvested them into uh a woman who was an assistant in a prek class uh at the school we were at in South Africa and she started a rental business. Uh she's the only person in the village that had round foldable tables which is kind of cool. So uh she's still doing that. So um I believe it's called Dora's Rentals or whatever is still is still going as well. So, um, kind of took that money, seed money for her business to start that. And so, kind of two separate businesses are still going in a small capacity from the one thing that we started. And I like to think like that could be the difference for those families and their kids and, you know, just having some stability. Well, it's a quantum leap for a generation, right, and the establishment. uh through that journey is how we met two of our employees on our side um with Matin and Marina. You also work with Marina still. Yeah, Marina is our best friend in South Africa. So yeah. Yeah. It ripples from you being there and like still being felt there. It's pretty cool to see and that I think moreover that's what redemptive entrepreneurship should look like. We haven't used that word nearly enough on this podcast. Right? We talk about making money, but it's like it's really redemptive because entrepreneurship is going from zero to one. Like you you you know, if you plug away at cooking fries, like yeah, you can be valuable, but entrepreneurs start businesses. Yeah. And businesses exist to solve problems. Yeah. And you're now solving problems with just giving people jobs and etc. Um Yeah. You don't need to like invent the next thing, right? I know Facebook and be in my garage would be like, you know, building the next cool vacuum that can be a wall art in and Dyson. Um the I guess if you guys ever get under contract with us, the viewers, you get to meet some of the South African blood in the tin. She saves her life. Let's see if the English translates. Sometimes it work. Hey, I think it works perfect. There's some cultural differences. A little uh very very short anecdote. Uh, we had like a review template that was like, "Hey, review us." It was like, "Review us and send us two referrals now." It was like, "This is the most abrasive review form I've ever seen with like they're never going to talk to me again." She's like, "Oh, like we're just more direct." Like, it literally said, "Send us referrals now." Well, cut the fluff. She just told you what she wanted. She's like, "I want your referrals and I want you to review us. We did a good job." It might have worked. Should have kept it. Yeah, you should have kept it. Down. fun a fun through line through since you brought up redemptive um entrepreneurship business, however you want to frame it. When I first started at Refinery, I went to a conference at Threefold um at the old like North View on Benford campus or whatever. And uh Andy Crouch was there and he spoke and he he has a a book called Strong and weak and he does like a 2x two matrix of how do you find redemptive pursuits within your industry. So I remember sitting with this 2 by two matrix like a ton. I did it for refinery. I did it for my residential real estate. Um, and not to leaprog any other questions, but like that's how actually how I got to tenant first real estate was through this 2 by 2 matrix from Andy Crouch that was like, "Oh, what's the way that I can pivot against what everyone else is doing in a redemptive way?" Cuz like not and I'm not I'm not going to explain the whole 2x2 matrix because I will not do it justice, but basically there's one person who's exploiting another people group. If we think of real estate, we all know who is exploiting or who we all think is exploiting landlords and like landlords are exploiting tenants, right? So like with my investments. Correct. Correct. And that's not how it should be. So, uh, so when I do it, I was like, okay, so what's the redemptive thing? Well, what if I became a landlord through the lens of my tenants? So, if I chose the tenant instead of the property and I let it be a tenantled process, that's a way that I could redeem, which leaves to where tenants then don't get into these like fight, flight or flee situations because of exploitive landlords. Instead, they build relationships and they stay longterm. So then now full circle with South Africa, why we call our real estate Funani homes, um, Finani Ministries was who we were with in South Africa and it was Funani Academy. Funani means let's help each other. So I've always seen it as let's help each other through housing is like what we are doing. It's the same ethos, it's the same heart of what we were doing in South Africa. Um so bringing the redemptive piece and the missional piece. Also reminds me of uh Tim Ferrris says what if you do it's in the intro to what if you do the opposite? Sometimes like something's not working traditional landlordship. What if you do the opposite? Put tenants first. Yeah. I think uh I met you at a perfect time and a perfect crossroads because I was just getting into my first property having just nightmare situations and I was being very much the traditional landlord, right? It's got to be this way. You're living in my house by my rules and this is how it's going to be and and laying the law down. Not really. I just had a property manager doing it and probably doing that effect. Um, and then we met and he told me this profound story about how you you identify a tenant and then you go out and buy a house for him. It's kind of like you need a new couch, you go to Ashley Furniture, you meet the couch guy and he gets you a couch, right? You meet Addison and he gets you a house and and places you as a tenant. Maybe not exactly that, you know, everybody, but kind of. And the reason that that happened is because you had a tenant and you knew that uh you have a very profound buy box as well and you knew I had a few listings in that direction. You're kind of exploring them. Yeah. Um and then we got to talking. I'm like wait you like know your tenants that well like you this is the process and I thought it was really cool and I went out and bought two properties like two months later. I was like I'm going to identify the tenant buy the propert and put them in there. Um, I don't think anybody else does that like at anywhere. I've never ran ran into it where you can you actually interact with tenants on a daily basis. Talking about your cousins, right? Talking about the janitor at the church or um so it was just from that matrix is where that was born or what's the the through line of of how that became? Yeah. So, so that that matrix was there kind of guiding the thoughts and and I will also say it was probably three years into real estate investing before I even coined in my own head tenant first real estate. It's more so, oh, this is what I'm doing. You know, I looked back and I was like, oh, yeah, the process was happening and now I can label the process. But that 2 by 2 had been a framing of like how can I be redemptive in this? And it was I read Brandon Turner's uh the book on rental property management or whatever probably talks about getting a good credit score, getting a good you know two to three months. I skipped all those chapters. I was just like, "Oh, this isn't of interest to me." And it was don't let your tenants know um that you're the landlord. So, if you show up to the property, tell them you're like the management or something like that. And I remember going to the first property and I was going to do that and I was like, "No, why would I do this?" I was like, "I I own the house. Don't screw me over." You know, but you're showing up as a real person, as Addison Newell, not I'm going to put on this mask of landlord. I used to show up to my property and say I was part of the management company. And then I realized like this is so weak. It's not even funny. I was like, I'm the owner. I care about my property. Do this the right way. That was a much more effective for me than masking myself. I went two steps back, right? I threw the manager in front of me and didn't go to the property. And like it was a terrible experience. But the next one I'm there, tenants moving in. We've identified him, got the property, and I'm like going through, you know, a move in checklist. And halfway through I'm like, "Hey, I don't know if you realize this, like I'm the owner of the property." You know, you were talking to Trent previously, whatever. That autopay for rent, has called for two maintenance items, has sent me invoices from like Lowe's picking things up for the property. Hey, there was a leaky pipe. I'm just going to fix it. I watched YouTube and I'm going to do it. And I'm like, "Sure." Yeah. On the quarterly thing, show me what you fix so I make sure it's not screwed up. Well, and I'll tell you a super recent example of where it pays off. Um, one of the houses was having an issue with the toilet. Um, they contact me at 800 PM at night. I said, "All right, I'll have someone there first thing in the morning. I send the person there." He like, it was my handyman. He like botches everything or he botched everything in that situation. So then I was like I was like handyman. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like cuz I told him, you know, when it's a toilet problem, this is like pro tip. Uh, typically just replace the toilet. Uh, you are way a lot of money ahead. there's a couple troubleshooting you can do to know if it's a like a sewer line problem and at that point you're in trouble but like most of the time your toilets just like stopped working. Um and so I send him send him there. He doesn't do it right. Comes back to me and was like, "Hey, you need to call like a real plumber to come out here and clear the line." So I'm like, "I know it's not that. I know it's the toilet, but I'm going to do it anyway." Right? So I call the plumber. They come out the next morning. I pay an expedited fee. I get them to come out. And after all of this, so after probably $400 to $500 to just replace a toilet, which I was like sent him the first time, um the tenant sends me kind of a crappy text message of just like, well, we went like two days without a toilet or something like that. And I said, so I just could go back and say, here's when you contacted me. Here's what I did about it. Here's when I got that information. Here's what I did about it. I'm glad your toilet's working now. And period. And then underneath it, now here's the human part. Know that I went above and beyond for you on this to make sure that this could be done as fast as possible. Remember that you know me and I'm a person. And they sent back, I'm so sorry. Like I didn't mean to send it that way. That wasn't the tone. And like they were genuinely apologetic, but I have to remind them I'm a person. If they've never met me or they're dealing with just the property management person, I probably don't get this like reconciled text message back that's like actually pretty kind. And then the next time they had an issue like a bird died in their flu or something for the hback, it was like, you know, I said, "Hey, I'll be over at this time." And like when we got it resolved within like 12 hours, I got a really nice text message that was like, "Hey, man. Thank you so much. I know we hadn't reached out to you for like anything." And then two big things happened in a row, like we really appreciate you. All these different things where like it's just cuz I was human with them, you know? Well, what's interesting is like if that was in your own home, it's going to take two days. Yeah. And that's the reality. You're you're just maintaining the home. I had a similar thing with HVAC and I've talked about it way too much on this podcast and almost got myself in trouble for the deal that I got for it. So, I'll just punt and move on. Well, one more thing there, which is like the difference in that is going to be relationship versus non relationship will also affect longevity. Yeah. Of the tenant staying there. That's true. Vacancy um live when ex-manager was managing mine every every turn they'd leave. Sorry. Yeah. Someone cares. It's a home. It's a difference between a house and a unit and a home. I think so. And that's one of our core values for when I did the the kind of EOS process for Finani Homes. Uh our second core value is homes, not properties. So, we know we don't refer to them as now. Sometimes when I'm talking to people, I'll say properties, but if I'm actually dealing with the home, we call it a home cuz homes have people. Properties are just on Excel sheets, right? So like you uh if someone lives here, you should take it seriously that like this should be a livable place. Uh it should have all the criteria it needs to have if there's a real complaint that's impeding their ability to live there. And a lot of the tenants I have like they've never like a lot of them have stayed in apartments before or they've never actually been in a full house themselves. they don't know to change an air filter or how that works or whatever. And like that's on me. Like I'm introducing you to a home cuz I want you to feel at home and I want you to stay here for a long time. And like I told one tenant when she moved in, I said, "I hope you die here." You know, like and it's like for 30 years I hope you stay here. I I was like and I promise I will never sell this house as long as you are here. But we all know the day she passes away or she moves on, I'm flipping that house and I'm selling that house. So like that is exactly what's happening. But she's my favorite tenant. she can do whatever she wants in there. She's just like the absolute best person. Um and even back uh Max, you'd asked like um maybe some things that like led to this. The the first tenant we had and I always have to share this story because when I look back I realize, oh, this was tenant first and it came from something that was beyond me. Um I was touring houses. I want to buy my first rental. I'm looking for a $100,000 house on the near east side. Um and we find one that's 119. I'm like, "Oh, I can't afford 119." Uh, like at that time when I look back, I'm like, if I could find $120,000 house right now, I'd be so happy. Smash the buy button. Yeah. So, um, little house built 900 ft, threebedroom, two bath, uh, built in 2018. Not well, uh, but it was built in 2018, so, uh, low insurance, you know, all sorts of stuff. Um, and there was a tenant already in place. She was paying $900 a month. Um, that's why it sat on the market was like at that price point, I think your monthly expenses, if you did 20% down, you were at like $750 a month in expenses. So, no one's going to buy this and cash flow $150 a month, right? It's not the 1% rule. So, yeah. And then no one's buying it and moving in because there's a tenant in place. So, they don't want to inherit that. So, my wife actually, she didn't go to most of the houses with me, but this one she did. And we walk in and the tenant was in the house. Um, and we got to know her, her and her two daughters, and um, she's sharing, she's like, "Hey, if I knew they were going to sell it, I would have never signed a lease here, and I don't want to get kicked out. Like, we just moved in and blah blah blah blah blah." And we walk around and I the first thing I noticed was the house. She'd been in there for 2 months, and the house looked just like the stage photos from before she moved in. She's super clean, right? That's a great sign. And I'm like, "Okay, she wants to be here. She's really clean." um she had some section 8 housing support, so at that time it was a plus to me as somebody else is helping pay some of this rent. And uh it felt like a really lowrisk opportunity, but when we walked out, I looked at my wife and I said, "We don't buy houses because of tenants." Like that literally came out of my mouth at that time. Um and I said, "If Rex found out we bought this house because we really like this woman and we wanted to help her out, he'd kill me." You know, kind of thing. And I remember laying down that night and uh again, I mentioned my faith earlier. It's it's very active in all that I do. But I sat there and I I what I believe I hear is the voice of God and he just says, "If you're not doing this for my people, why in the world are you doing this?" And I woke up the next morning, text my agent, and said, "Put the offer in." Like, "Let's do this." Right? Um and so that became our first house, right? Uh I love to say day after closing um the furnace started leaking in the ceiling and we like immediately lost three months cash flow you know like on our first house real estate. It's the realities. Yeah. And then the next house um we planned on buying one a year. The next house later that year I was in a group. This guy was not a business owner but he was in a group of business owners. Someone asked how he was doing how people were doing. He just started sharing. He was living in his car. He made some bad decisions and all these different things. And I just like felt so moved that I went up to him and I was like, "Can you make it 30 days? I'll buy you a house." And I went and like found a house not far from refinery. And uh whatever three and a half years later, that guy's still in that house. Um it's been a home run uh opportunity ever since. And then the next house um someone uh actually my favorite tenant ever who I met also at Refinery. She was staying with her daughter. She had moved from Texas and she needed to be in her own place and all these different things. I sent her a Zillow listing and said, "Would you live at this house uh near Community Hospital East?" And she went, camped out for 3 hours on the street outside the house and was like, "Seems really nice here. Like, I'd live here." I'm like, "All right, let's put the offer in. Let's do that one." The fourth one, the uh we were living in a house and this woman who worked with my wife at this uh public school that she was working at, she was her instructional assistant had come and said, "Um, hey, would your husband buy me a house so I can uh rent there cuz I'm getting kicked out. I'm the house guy, right?" So, this is where it starts like happening. And she um so we start looking at houses. She's like, "The public school my wife was at was closing." So, she was losing her job. She said, "Well, I want to start a daycare. you have little kids. I could watch your kids at the daycare in exchange for like rent and whatever. So, I'm like looking at houses like could my kids stay at this house? And that changes your threshold from property to home. And we go and I'm like having no luck looking. And she eventually says, "Well, why don't you just move and I will move into your house and I will run the daycare from there." And I go, "That's a great idea." So, like we end up moving one minute down the road to a house that ended up being a house hack. We have an Airbnb behind our house. It was home run purchase for us. She moved into our old home and for the last two and a half years have been watching our kids at our old house as like a daycare. So, it's like it starts to ripple through this. And there's more stories of these people. I have two people right now on my phone who need a house and have similar stories that are great people. Um they don't look good on paper, but they're actually great people. Um, and yeah, those first four really set the stage for like, oh, I think I could like do this for a living. Like, this is actually really fun. Um, but yeah, there were very few people that could tell the story of their tenants, the origin, how the house was like I don't even know if I if I have encountered another person that could do and go on that monologue that you just did. Yeah. Um, the the biggest thing that that comes back to me is there's another phase. there's an entrepreneurial phase uh in this journey which is I heard somebody a month ago I won't disclose who their name is until the cameras are off but they said uh if there's one person that I would that I would bet money on and invest in it's Addison and what he's about to create um we'll get to that but I want to back up and talk about how you were able to do that right um you're working at refinery at the time buying these houses starting to build a portfolio don't imagine that you're making enough to put down payments on each and every one of these. How have you been able to leverage the portfolio uh your connectivity and the way that um yeah I mean the down payments you that you're able to to raise through your relational network I think it's really impressive. Yeah. Yeah. I can give you the I always love to be transparent with the numbers. I think another thing that Tyler and I share in common, we both went to Olivet Nazarene University and um late last year I went and spoke at uh business class and I showed them here's my actual bank account and here's what it was when I started this and here's what it was in the middle and here like I'll show you the real numbers. So like when we came back from the missions field um we had exactly uh $21,000 that was like saved up and that was from before I went into the missions field. So, um, my wife had a bunch of student debt. I'd saved up a bunch of money when I was teaching cuz I was only making $37,000 a year teaching in IPS at that time. So, super frugal, saved up a bunch, paid off all of her student loans right when we got married, which she said was always her payment plan, uh, was just find somebody to pay off her student loans. Um, and so, uh, we're not making money as, uh, missionaries, so we're just trying to be really frugal and save stuff. We come back. Uh, we spent $9,000 on a used 2013 Subaru Forester that's engine died two times um on us later and uh I had probably $5 to $6,000 for a down payment on a house. Uh and I used the W2 contract from my corporate job that I was taking when we were moving here in and moving to Indie to get uh the financing for the house. So when we made that purchase, we basic we barely had enough money to pay whatever was due that month on credit cards or anything like that. So through this process though, it became um the the first rental Rex tried so hard to explain to me like raise other people's money, all these different things. And I can tap into that mindset of like you really do not feel competent or confident to take someone else's money and put it into a real estate deal like early on. That is natural. That is normal. That should that should feel hard. If it doesn't feel hard, you have a problem. It should also feel really hard to buy the first. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's a risk and there's a weight that should come with taking someone else's money and putting it into something. So I told him, I said, "Before I do that, I want to buy my first rental on my own." Right? Again, he tried to tell me a million times to stop doing that. Uh but I did it. So I had like uh so I bought the first rental on my own, completely depleted our bank account. We had just saved up enough. I think $19,000 is everything I needed to get that first one. Um, and we were back down to like three grand. So when that like $500 $600 furnace thing kicked in, it was like, "Oh, that really like sucks." Like we need the next paycheck to like hit. Um, and so yeah, so we get that one. Now the second property, this is when I left the corporate job and now I was transitioning to Refinery 46. And um what I love is and this will be a theme, but I I tell people talk to Rich Dad's show Po Po Po Po Po Po Po Po Po Poor Dad. So if you've never read Rich Dad Poor Dad, um it's just this mindset of people who get real estate, who get investing are the people you want to spend time with if you're trying to raise money or learn how to raise money. People who is foreign to them, which is probably a lot of if you're young, a lot of your friends are do have absolutely no understanding of how to raise money or real estate or anything like that. and you will spend a lot of time trying to convince those people to give you money or family if your family's not in that lane like mine. Um it's just wasted air. You know, you have to show those people that it works over time and then they will come in. But rich dads already understand the concept. So I was trying to raise money for the second investment and I put together what I thought was like a one-pager of like, hey, there's this little dinky house outside of Irvington and I think I could buy this one. I could do blah blah blah blah blah. and I put it all together, put it into one pager. And at this time, as I'm transitioning from that corporate job to Refinery 46, I'm meeting with Jesse Cross, one of the owners there. So, Brian Shut, Jesse Cross. Um, I remember it was on my interview to take over refinery. And Jesse goes, "No one ever tells me what I'm supposed to ask people in these interviews." He goes, "Do you like real estate?" And so, we just start talking about real estate. We don't even talk about refinery or anything like that. And by the end of it, I said, "Hey, I have this one pager. I've been talking to this guy who said he would want to invest with me. Would you look it over and give me feedback? So, I sent it to him. He texts me later. He says, "If that guy backs out, I'll invest with you." Totally. Again, not investing with me to get me to take the job at Refinery. Um, it was just like I He's like, "I love real estate. I believe it's the the way to financial freedom for everybody, and I'd love to help get you started." So, he loans me like $17,000, and like that's how we buy the next one. uh the third house. We actually per Rex's advice emailed all of the people who donated to us in the missions field who knew us who knew our character who knew our journey and said, "Hey, we're not in the missions field anymore, but here's this kind of missional pivot we're doing as we're trying to figure it out. Uh if anyone has interest in like participating, let's have a conver." Oh yeah. And I I think and my dad did too and he was like, "This is super interesting. Like we should think." And I was like, "Wait, dad, invest in me." No, I'm just kidding. Though, there was a moment where I'm like about to respond to an email and say, "Yeah, I'll be the investment partner on this property." And I'm like, "Wait, Max, where possible discussion about how like a lot of we don't have to go down this road, but like a lot of out of state investors we believe should be investing in local operators like you or me or Max, not trying to do the thing themselves, right? you shouldn't try to build a portfolio from distance if you haven't been here. You don't know the tenants. Yeah. You can't articulate the story, right? Um but what you've been able to do is is essentially promise a return on two years for a down payment on a property. We don't have to get into the semantics of how the closing process works, but essentially somebody's investing the if it's 20 25% down with you um making what 10% 10%. Yeah. Yeah. and and they get that return in full in two years and hopefully go and do it again. The coolest thing you've been able to do that with the cash flow of the properties. Yeah. How cash flow? What? How does that even work? Yeah. Like it it literally to me seems impossible today to cash flow. Yeah. And you've been able to pay your investors back that down payment two years down the road from the gross profit of the portfolio. Um I hope that that continues for you. imagine as interest continues to get higher, it'll be harder to do that. But I I fullheartedly believe it is because of the uh tenant first mindset and the way that those tenants are also investing in you and relying on you to show up. Mhm. Have you ever had an issue with paying back your investors or do you foresee it ever? Yeah, so we've not had to refinance a single house um at uh but yeah, we've paid them all back from the cash flow. Um doesn't that mean it would have to cash flow 10% cash on cash? Is that math right? I think so. It's just like a ridiculously good deal, right? Yeah. I mean, I would say it's it just to not over complicate a lot of it because like I'm like get get out the spreadsheet the calculator. One way I like to frame it is so take um so say it's 20 let's just talk about $100,000 house. It's $20,000 10% interest. So after year one that's 22 after year um two that's like 24100. So $24,000 and plus some extra you owe them that in two years. So take any cash flow you make during that time. Um now a benefit of being able to lease. So a lot of these houses we put a tenant in the day after closing. So we close a tenant moves in. So we get like that first free month. So you're beating almost you could be two months depending on what day you close. Yes. Yes. So that helps immensely. Um so you get that money in. Say say you make I don't know $9,000 I don't know over those two years. You have nine grand. That's it. You are. You owe 24. You made nine. Would you pay? And now if I go backwards and I say, if you give me $15,000 and you can have a cash flowing house, would you have done it? The answer is yes. Like that was the simple math for me of like I'm just sometimes by taking on that promisary note. I'm just saying I'm buying this I'm really buying this house 2 years from now and it's operating and I'm getting it for less than what I could get it for today with somebody else's money. Now, it's the adverse of seller financing because seller financing, if I wanted to buy your $100,000 house, I would tell you that I'll buy it for 120 and we're going to put it over the course of however many years to where it'd be worth 120. So, literally just flipping that again when what's working do the opposite. Whatever the heck you said earlier about Tim Ferris, I just read his five bullet Friday. I don't know anything else about him. Yeah, that's super cool. And I think it is 10% cash on cash. We could do the math. I don't think so. No, it's not. It's actually 5%. It's not because you're just covering their gap. Mhm. So, you just have to make the 10% on their gap, which that as simple as that is, uh, was a light bulb moment for me. It's hard though to do that. Um, and and and the reason why you are able to do that, I think, is the two twoish months that you're getting ahead, one to two months on the payments by having a tenant lined up and ready to go. I had a conversation with an investor last week and I was like, "Hey, the last property you bought took six months to rent." Yeah. Just by the way, I have a turnkey investment here. Cuz he's like skittish about jumping back in. Anyways, don't have to hit on that. Well, and take this take this even further. So, um what I'm looking at now, uh and this tenant first model has evolved to look at local ministries and nonprofits who need housing partners um and they provide uh wraparound services for these people who go through their program. So, two great entities um who I'm actually actively trying to help one individual under um it's called ministry ministry called unconditional on the near east side. So, they have one person who I'm working with to try to find housing for right now. And then another one is 91 Place um that also needs like housing support people. Um 91 Place and I just went and looked at a 16-unit apartment building. Now, take tenant first on a single family house and say, "Oh, I got the tenant. They can pay." Because I asked people, "How much can you pay?" Like, I I want to look for stuff that's in your budget where I'm still cash flowing. And like I if they tell me 1,200 to,500 say like okay I'm going to look from between 12 and 1500 but I tell you it's probably going to be closer to 1500. Um and so like if you want a nicer place I assume that's what they'd want. So in working with uh 91 place like we've been touring some multif family or the 16 unit and being able to say okay how much can your people afford? And they're like $600 a month for like a onebedroom. I'm like yeah that's really tough. So, like, but the more units we look at, it's it's easier. So, like we look at this one um on the near east side and we do a quick math. We're like, "Great. At at this price point, we're looking at $6,000 a month in expenses. If we can fill all 16 units, we're at $9,600 uh in revenue. How confident are you you can fill those units?" She like, day one, I'm like, "Wow, now this becomes a lot easier. it becomes a lot easier of a situation where I now have a partner who can come in and fill a bunch of these things. Well, what you're hitting on is the power of full occupancy in cash flow, which is unlocking a lot for me. That that's a hidden advantage. Like most people think yours might be a disadvantage, like lower income or whatever, but it's no. Like you have people lined up and now you have service partners lined up. Yeah. The vacancy matters in the spreadsheet, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think I've shared this in other settings, but across six long-term rentals, you know, then we've got, I guess, seven long-term rentals and then three Airbnbs. Those seven long-term rentals, they we've had one month without a human being in a house. Congrats. You know, and the and he left and he came back. Uh so like at a higher price point because I told him if he leaves, we're renovating the house and I'm charging more for rent. He left and then he was like, "Hey, can I come back?" And so now he's back uh in the house. So, it is these these relationships where u and this is a case I've heard people make for section 8. And granted, we've only ever had one person who had partial section 8. I've never had a full section 8 number one. And that was tenant number one. So, we're not we're not adverse to section 8. I' I'd actually welcome it, but um they said a section 8 tenant typically stays for three years is the versus a residential or marketbased interest tenant stays for one. Is that because they have a case worker? I don't I'm not fully sure the exact data behind it besides I can look at my situation and say we we are dealing with people who would qualify for section 8, right? But we're working with them and they're all staying for over 3 years, right? So you're beating the curve. I the only I just the level of care I guess is why I went to the the caseworker place of like I know how I interact with my tenants. Um it's just different. It's it's relational equity is all that it is. I the 10x. Yeah, that's that's awesome. Literally, I mean, that's what it is, right? You're taking six to 16. You have to go to 60, but you're going from one to 16. So, you're 16xing your normal purchase. You're actually about to like 100x though in a huge commercial building that by the time this podcast comes out, hopefully those units will be ready for lease, I think, if I know the dates right. Um, walk me through the the behemoth of this kneemer purchase that you're about to do. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, the refinery 46s story. Uh, again, if you don't know the building, micro office, co-working, and events. Um, it's also I credit so much that's happened there that that made me good at real estate, uh, residential real estate, just getting to know home service providers, being around more people. Um, in that space, it just you start to get washed over by the content and the connection. So, when a waterline burst, uh, I know a plumber rather than calling whoever shows up who paid for the Google ads, you know, that day. Um, and I remember having I called two of those people who pay for the Google ads and they quoted me7500 to replace a water line and a guy who was a member at Refinery uh changed his whole schedule to show up the next day for me um and did it for five grand. Whole thing saved me 2500 bucks, right? And it was like I realized very quickly not a lot of people have these these contacts that are happening here. So anyway, that's a little microcosm of something being in that ecosystem and learning and meeting all these different people. And at some point I was like, well, could I do a version of refinery um just in my neighborhood like where I live instead of and again I refiner is like 15 20 minutes from my house but like I want to be on the near east side of Indianapolis. I live in Irvington and uh we do we buy everything from our house to our church. So from Arlington Avenue to State Avenue between Washington Street and 16th Street. So it's a very specific corridor that we focus on. Literally a buy box like it is the buy box for uh where we believe change will happen over the next 10 years and we want to be a part of that. So, um, I was actually looking at a different building with Rex. Um, and it was a way smaller opportunity. Um, actually just a few doors down from Needham Hammer. And right as we were about to submit an offer and we had we're getting the bank lined up, Rex just like pauses and he's like, I think I think you could go bigger and I think there's a bigger opportunity for you. And he's like, I think you would do hit a home run on this one, but you won't have the influence you're actually looking to make for the next 10 years because this opportunity will be too small. we should look at this and uh the need hammer building had been listed a year or two prior. Um so he's like I know they're still open to selling. Let's begin this process. We are like today is marks like one year of this journey of like thinking and talking about this building. Um exploring seller financing, exploring what a right offer would be. Could the proformal work? It's a lot of free time that my GC and my architect have like toured this building with me and I've yet to pay them a dollar, you know, through this entire process. um actually both tenants of refinery that are doing the work which is pretty cool. Um and yeah, so I looked at it and my heart really hit uh I guess this will be another side story but there's an amazing person on the near east side uh Joe Bowling who's with the Englewood um CDC's executive director over there and I was sharing with him like a big vision because funny enough he actually owned Needhammer before the current owner which was like I found that out while we were sitting in needhammer having coffee. Uh so he told me all the stories and I'm sharing with him I was like I think I can like influence a movement of a hundred people to not invest in the near east side but to live here whether their business lives here or they will buy a house here. Um because I I don't inherently think we need more people owning rentals in the near east side. We need more people owning homes. Plenty of plenty of those. I'm one of them. Plenty of rentals. Um and so I said I want to influence a hundred people to come here. And he goes, he's like, "Ah, that's I bet that sounds cool." He's like, "That's a really dumb goal." He was like, "You should just go disciple 10 more people to do what you do, like tenant first real estate and approaching buildings this way." And he's like, "If we had 10 more Addison, we'd have way more impact than a hundred people who were influenced by Addison to come here." So, what I think is interesting about the way you're going about it, talk to me about how you are actually fundraising the down payment. Yeah. Um, talk to me about that because I know you you pitched Max and I and we might invest. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's 100% in line with that hundred. So, even though I agree with Joe that it's probably more effective to have 10 disciples in this way of thinking, I'm still pursuing the hundred people that I can influence to live here and be here. So, I've approached to the detriment of many uh mentors um who told me I should just uh go find one or two people who could help finance this thing along with the bank that we've secured and all that stuff and make it simple, have less mouths to feed, less voices to be inputed. And I said, how about I do the exact opposite of that and I go like spread this net as far out as possible and even if you can only bring a little bit of money, like get in the deal. Get in the deal. I want to like richly reward you. I want you to have a great return. And then when we're done in three years and we refinance and you get paid back and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I put in 25 and I got 25 back and I still have equity." You will say, "What's the next one?" Um, and that actually really comes from Rex of one when we were looking at the um returns for the investors. I was like, "Do I need to be that generous, you know, with with the return?" And he goes, "Was this the last deal that you're going to do?" And I said, 'No, like we got 10 more years of deals, you know, so that's like what what we want to focus on. He said, ' Then be really generous like so that they help you fund the next one and the next one. And it's this creating a rising tide, right? So at at Needhammer, the goal is to make 35 offices, keep the coffee shop, have a co-working area and an event area. So if I can bring in, you know, 10 investors who all have a great experience and they can start to believe in the near east side, that's 10 people ready to go after 3 years to say, um, what's the next opportunity? They could splinter into 10 different opportunities. It could be 10 people channeled into one more big opportunity. You know, it just starts a rippling effect. Maybe they're like, hey, you're doing really great. I'm going to buy the building down the street and I'm going to start something. And um I even got a really funny text from Rex at one point on a building I had asked him about that he's like, "Oh, don't worry about that building. You shouldn't do this." Blah, blah, blah. And then he goes he sends me a text later and he's like, "Hey, we're going to be neighbors or something." And I was like, "You bought the building." You know, like and he was like, "Got a lot writing on you being successful." The risk of working with a with a dog. You might buy the building you're looking at. But it was like it was the best. Yeah. It was the best thing though because I was like, "Oh, he like he believes, you know, he believes I'm gonna be successful with this." So like, and I wonder if he would not have bought that unless you were doing all this. There's no way he wouldn't have bought like he he bought it because of that, right? So I know both of you be well enough to say that. Yeah. And there's like but it's the rippling of like if we can if he's willing to move, I'm moving. Can I be that first domino that leads to a bunch of other people wanting to invest here and do things? Um, so that that's the whole goal is like how do I bring enough people in retaining majority control? And I someone once told me they're like, "How do you plan on having the conversation with a 2% equity holder who has a lot of opinions?" And I said, "Well, it helps that the guy who's investing 10% u who's also taking on a limited guarantee with me for the deal said, "Hey, there's no uh confusion here. We all know you're the decision maker." He's like, "Happy to throw my input in here when you need it, but like you make the decisions." And it's like, as long as you set that expectation with your input is welcomed. I want you to be a champion with this, but no, I will make the decision and you can benefit from that, never having to make a choice on this besides me doing that. Right. Well, it's a it's a a silent private equity. Yeah. That hopefully will come and utilize the space as well. Yeah, Tyler and I, one of our first deals together, this is what really sharpened our partnership was trying to sell this really crummy uh chopped up house on Hamilton. It hasn't sold yet. Um, we don't have a listing agreement anymore, but it was an experience of just a lot of squatters and things that that made us tougher. Yeah. On Hamilton. Mhm. Which is right where Knee Hammer is. And I remember he's like, "Do you want to get coffee down there?" And I was like, "Who in the heck would get coffee on this block?" I'm like a month into being an indie. I just don't I don't know where I'm at at all. And uh I sent you an email 2 days ago that said I want 302 as in you showed me the floor plan and I'm like that's the office I want. I want to host events here. I want to plant into it. So I just encourage you as you continue down the journey like number one I want to be a part. Number two want to be a resident there and number three want to have our roots events there and and make a difference in that east corridor. Um man it's really inspiring. You you're you're absolutely crushing it. We have went on so long and I think that we have like hit like half of what we could. So, you're definitely going to come back. We'll do a round two. But before we wrap up, we have a tradition on this show that uh we just started like episode seven. So, we'll continue on um of where we ask the guest to leave a question for the next guest. And the last episode we had uh Aaron Ler on. Uh if you don't know Aaron, I definitely want to make that connection. You guys think and operate the same way. One on the west side, one on the east side. Um, what's a key step to scale or the step you made uh to get uncomfortable in the journey scaling? There was a uh first ever Bigger Pockets podcast I listened to. Um, I cannot find the episode. I've I've truly tried so I could credit the person who said this on the podcast episode. Um, say David Green. It was it was a guest that they had a guest on and this guest who I don't think ever came back on but he was it was so great. He goes um we are not people are not risk-seeking or risk adverse. Everyone is risk mitigating and the the question is how many questions do you have to ask to mitigate the risk down to where you are comfortable and mine is like three questions like I have a very like high risk tolerance. So like if you can answer three questions for me or approximately three I will say yes to the opportunity. Um my superpower is my wife uh her number of questions is zero. So, she is down for whatever, whatever. So, it has like fully unlocked. Um, I don't know. It's just been the superpower and unlocked me to be able to like step in to uncomfortable situations where I know I've got a partner at home that like is like, "Hey, you got this." You know, like go for it. Do this thing. I'm trusting almost to the point where she's too trusting and I need her to have a little more discernment to like stop me at times. Uh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the uh if you're not willing to bet on yourself, who else is going to bet on you? And there's a reason why people will invest private capital with you. Yeah. Um now we'll hit to our rapid fire three questions. Yeah. Question we like to ask every guest just to hear that like what do you love about Indianapolis is like what is your favorite lunch or dinner spot in Indie? That's funny. So again with uh three little boys uh all under five years old. Um man, it's so funny. We've tried so many places and you have to hit the right balance of like kid-friendly also my kid's going to be a terror, you know, up there and like it's so funny like uh Blind Owl Brewery on uh I think it's like on uh Benford Benford. Yeah. I don't know 62nd or somewhere up there, man. Just super kid-friendly place. They've got an outdoor area. Uh their fish and chips is like boundaries. We like places with a fence. Yes. If you have a toddler, go to an outdoor place with a fence. Yeah, you'll be you'll be happy you did. Yeah. Speaking from experience. Yeah. So, that that color so it's not a it's not a sexy choice, but uh and then Irvington, we can walk to Lincoln Square, Jakamo, Smashburger. So, we go to those places a lot. When you close a big deal, do you get sushi? Sushi every time. Yes. Sushi every time. So, Jeremy Tolman, I know that he'll listen all the way this far in the episode. I I there was a a collective group that we were having at Refinery. Yeah. And you actually on the podcast you had said that. Yeah. And so on the podcast I as he asked the food question. I was like, "Well, I'm gonna stop you. It's when you close a big deal and you get sushi." Sushi with your wife. And Jeremy literally just stopped him and was like, "Not me. I don't like I hate sushi." And I was like, "Dang it, that was it was the most awkward podcast, but it was awesome." Yeah. Well, Jeremy text me the other day and asked if I had recommended some book on motorcycles or something to him, and I was like, "Not a chance. Not a chance that that was me." So, we did find out who recommended it, but it was not me. Yeah, I was glad that I got down to the the sushi. So, um what's one habit that changed your life? Dude, it's changing it uh right now. Um whether you read the one thing traction, I'm finishing 10x is better than 2x, right? It's this less is more. Um, best thing that ever happened uh in getting married, it forced me. I always tell people before they get married, you don't realize how selfish you are until you get married and you have to share space with someone. Then you have kids and you realize, oh, I'm like way more selfish than I thought I was. Like, so that that perspective of like you have to be more efficient with the time that you have during the day. And ask any guy or woman in their 20s that's single and they think they're so busy. and then like introduce other human beings into that and you have no you realize how little time you have to do all the things you want to do in a day. So between your working hours is just be laser focused like what is the one thing I'm doing today? Um say no to things that are depriving you 10x better than 2x the uh it said uh a fool is a man who knows he has cancer in his right arm and just leaves it there and doesn't cut it off. And I I think that's like really graphic, but I have a recent decision that I had to make where I'm like, "Oh my gosh, like this is a huge burden that's like sucking up a ton of my time. It's not in line with where I'm going or what I'm trying to do. I just need to chop it off, right?" But you can convince yourself like, "Oh, I I should keep the arm. Maybe I can heal the arm. Maybe I can change it." It's like, "Nope, it's got cancer. It's not going anywhere." You got to like move on. So less is more. uh and trying every single day to be more focused on what you're doing and asking yourself like what do I want to do and being honest with yourself on like how to get there. Oh, I love that. There was a time where I had I owned an investment that I was like really grappling with and was just just taking up so much of my mental capacity and I was sharing it with Rex in uh a one-on-one and and he looked at me and he goes, "How big is a check that you have to write to get rid of it?" And I and I I said probably about 70 to 75,000. He said, "Write it. Cash it tomorrow. Get rid of it. It's already cost you millions." And I was like, "Yeah, Rick, I don't have millions. What are you talking about?" He's like, and it was that model. Uh, I stolen the investment. Well, 75,000 sounds a lot different when you're our age. Him, but he's right. Um, yeah. Uh, last question here for you. What is an area of life you're currently focused on growing? Dude, I'm trying to be a better dad every single day. So, um it is uh it's the hardest journey. Uh I always thought before having kids like, man, I'm going to be the best dad. I've got this whole plan of all these different things. And um and dude, when your kid hits like five and they just never shut up and like they're just always talking and you're like, then the selfishness comes back. Like that's why I love kids when they're 18 months to three years, man. It's like they're hard, but they don't talk that much and like you just play, right? But once they get to like four, they just they need you at a different level. And uh I am constantly trying to have the margin to pivot when my family needs me to pivot. Uh when my wife uh a couple years ago was going through some tough stuff as we left South Africa and trying to integrate back into here in the US um realized like I was not accommodating. I was like, "Hey, why aren't you up here with me? Like let's keep going. Let's do this." Like I already processed and moved on. Well, she needed me to pivot and like give her more margin to focus on stuff. And by the time this comes out, um, she won't be she'll finish her 14th year of teaching. Um, uh, and she'll be working with me on the real estate stuff, and it's all a move to give her back more time, more margin. Um, and same thing with the kids. A four-year-old, a 5-year-old needs a different parent than a three-year-old and then a one-year-old does. Um, and I feel like, yeah, growing a business, you really suck at having margin and giving time to the people you need to. So that's the daily grind, right? Yeah. I think uh the best part about you is that you're even better off air than you than on air. Well, you're great on air. Uh but I know all of our guests um that are local will will uh one at some point to probably like have a conversation or at least be connected to you. So I'll let Max ask that question, but you're very open-handed with that, too. So I would just encourage people to go to Refinery, like go to our events. Addison might will likely be there, right? Yeah. It's it's you're not hiding, you know, like you're present. You're in the city. It'll probably be in the knee hammer building is my guess of where you'll be, but maybe flexing between refinery and there. Um, one thing you mentioned that I think we all can commonly get behind. The choice to be a dad, I'm not even talking about a good dad, just a choice to be a dad is a daily sacrifice you have to make. And that's something I wasn't expecting. I was same as you. I'm like, I want to be this. I'm my little guy's only 5 months. So, it's it's still been a journey of like those first few months I'm like I'm useless. No, you're not. There's ways that you can help and and interview. Uh so, to all the dads out there, don't be a bad dad. Be a good dad and a rich dad and a rich dad. Rich dad mindset. Yeah. Thanks for coming on, man. Yeah. Thanks for having me. We kind of alluded to where people can find you. I don't know if you have a vast social media presence, but dude, I'm so anti uh I do it for work and that's that's about it. Um I guess LinkedIn. Yeah, LinkedIn honestly is the best. So, I am actively I'm way more active on LinkedIn than anything else. Um, and then yeah, my email if you'd want to email me. I'm trying to get Addisonneadison. com. Someone told me to do that. Um, but Addison rnewgmail. com is I'm always open to an email. If you text me, if you get my phone number and you text me, I will not respond to you. Uh, but if you email me, I will almost 100% respond to you. So, we'll put the link to your buildings uh in the description to your LinkedIn and we'll drop the email. So, yeah, it's been a great episode. Thanks, guys. Y make sure to uh do all the YouTube things, like and subscribe. Come to our next master class. That was a good episode of the Roots Podcast. Peace.