How to Sell More Mortgages in 2025 (Without Selling Your Soul)

the deal of the decade comes once a week Oh you're a mortgage guy shade ball Oh you're a mortgage guy You must be a douche I can't trust you It's cool to be an entrepreneur and people love to talk about all their success stories It's a pretty sad day when you're like "Oh I just spent $380,000 on a loan that I don't want It's somebody I don't trust." Welcome back to another episode of the Roots Podcast I'm Tyler Lingal joined by my co-host Max Moore Today we've got a real treat for you The dog of the mortgage industry himself John Murphy Murf Dog John is the president and chief revenue officer of MJW Mortgage Since jumping into the mortgage game back in 2009 he's been all about speed service and strategy Over the years he's built one of the fastest growing teams of originators in the Midwest offering top tier programs competitive rates and a closing experience that gets deals done But John's not just dominating mortgages He's a true investor at heart He owns both commercial and residential assets giving him a rare full spectrum Love that word Max Good good word for the intro View of the real estate game from the financing desk to the closing table and beyond He's also a staple in the indie real estate scene featured in Real Producers magazine as a top tier partner and go-to expert In this episode today we dive into his journey how he's built a powerhouse team the principles that guide his investing decisions and what agents and buyers need to know about the current lending environment Let's get into it Love it Thanks for the intro I want to go straight to the heart of it What attributes make a great mortgage broker Yeah absolutely So so lending is a weird uh vocation because here's what nobody will tell you about being a mortgage person versus like a real estate professional No one grows up and is like I want to do mortgages Every single mortgage person you talk to has a weird way they ended up in the space Cuz mortgage people are bizarre because banks who buy and aggregate a lot of the mortgages actually hate mortgages because it's an inconsistent experience for how do you build it how do you maintain it how do you service it That's where you'll hear companies shutting down their residential mortgage channel or opening it up So really what what builds a great person is sometimes kind of a misfit personality which is where it was a good vocation for me because you have to be outside of the box Number one is as an independent mortgage banker which is our space which is to your point mortgage broker mortgage banker you have to be someone who is really intuitive to listening to your customer to even get the opportunity to work with them Number two is you have to be skilled with math which again in in the modern world with chat GBT and everything else you ask somebody how to do some quick math it can be difficult and also you have to you have to be knowledgeable in the guidelines and products because you can tell someone oh it looks great and I don't know if this has ever happened to you oh we're rolling on this deal and then you get a call you know week before closing hey we're out of we're out of luck deal's dead right nobody likes to admit that so there's a lot of traits and like principles that go into being successful But the first one is is that you you really have to be someone who's extremely resourceful from looking at the data structuring the file understanding the part parties involved to find solutions that work that also are compliant and uh meet the regulatory um requirements as well So there's a lot there to talk about Yeah it's I feel like mortgage brokers agents you know what they're doing because they're right in front of you juggling They're literally just we're clowns juggling balls you guys are behind the scenes trying to put the entire circus together and you're the ones that everybody gets pissed at right At the end of the day No doubt No doubt So so let's talk through some of the history of the mortgage business What a lot of people don't realize So there's been a variety of uh of financial crises and and a lot of people the great financial crisis Um what that what what happened and transpired is people placed the blame on the people that were creating and selling these loans Right That's where everyone locks back Oh you're a mortgage guy Shade ball Oh you're a mortgage guy You must be a douche I can't trust you Hey uh Murphy I saw that movie I could see you doing that What was that thing called Big The big short right Um so what you realize really quick about the space is that trust is low You have a lot of personal information from people and they really are showing their financial life because in the modern world one of the things I like about sports versus real life is like sports you pass them the ball like they're not good right With with lending you could meet someone and say "Oh my gosh this person has to have everything together They had a cool car awesome apartment all the items of uh what we'd consider financial security." And all of those are actually just artifacts that are making them go broke And then we have to call people and say "Hey this didn't work out." And so there's a lot that goes into unboxing what really is successful because a lender can't fix people's situations A lender can't sell a product that the secondary market doesn't want So as we look through this whole this whole business and we talk through this being a successful mortgage lender or creating a mortgage company there's so many pieces to it but step one is you have to have a great uh originator who knows the rules and knows the guideline is absolutely compliant and 100% by the book to participate in this market to get deals to the closing table Because what happens and what gives a good what gives maybe a good person a bad make a bad lender is it won't tell people the truth like hey this is this is this is going to be extremely difficult to close and it's probably not going to work out if you're willing to take that risk that this deal is going to blow up in the next eight days um you got to be good with it right the listing agent and you're like hey just by the way my guy submitted an offer but you also have to instill confidence with the realtors and the seller so it's a It's a bit of a tight rope there Tight rope No doubt And especially coming out of the last couple years because think about all the economic data And this is one of the hard parts that I've learned about being a lender We are participants in the market So if the market doesn't like lower credit score loans doesn't like um um doesn't like low down payments doesn't like um their their debt to income ratio or their income type you don't have a loan So as we talk through it what some lenders like to do is they like to say "I can get them all done man I'll just get it done for you." And you've heard it And then you get you send them money on your "Dude you didn't get it done." Right You said be a red flag of I should never use you Exactly I get it done Just give me anyone Right Exactly So so really when we talk through it it's it's a marriage of of of knowing your rules and and and having that integrity the ability uh to trust in yourself to have the conversation that has to be had and then also having a support structure cuz no one's successful in the mortgage business alone Every single agent can speak to multiple experiences that they go "That was one of the most stressful painful things I've ever done." All because of the lender not saying kind of like the things I'm talking about up front So to an open-ended question not to pose another question but that is why it's so difficult to just name one one singular thing that there's all these pieces to it from the operations of the company to the ownership of the company to who is it Is it a bank Is it a direct lender out of California and they're like "Hey if your loan closes cool If not whatever." Or is it somebody like us who it's like we have a text you know we text together where I would never want to burn a bridge with someone in my network So I'm always very careful to ever endorse something that might not work out right So that those are all those pieces for me Well what I love is I thought you were going to say something about selling better or being super personable or like wooing people but you basically just talked about e like ethics No doubt Because because one of the hardest parts about our businesses is when you look at any category of buying something and this is what makes lending unique There's wants like luxury goods there's needs right And then there's pains Grocery store pain right You got to eat right You got to eat Max Housing Housing You got to have a place to live right Medical You break your arm you're like "Dude I'll pay anything to get it fixed right?" So then we have the we have the the needs right We have these these needs and then we have wants like luxury goods which is a common place a certain type of cell phone with lending because of that and because of what you can do in the simple how much money it is like when I started off as a mortgage broker that means this for context for the for the podcast we got paid a flat fee from whatever lender who we sent the loan to and they would pay us a 1099 commission per transaction when we transitioned to the lender which is like going from AAA baseball to Major League Baseball where where when you're a full-blown lender like we are you're Major League Baseball You mess up a file right You close a bad loan Guess what the bank says to you That that investor you know that $380,000 loan that you and your team messed up John here you and my business partner Michael Wampler who our company's named after Get the pleasure to buy it back And think about this It's cool to be an entrepreneur and people love to talk about all their success stories It's a pretty sad day when you're like "Oh I just spent $380,000 on a loan that I don't want to somebody I don't trust." Right Like I still have a loan that we closed almost four years ago Now it's at least 7. 25% rate So we're making 40 some odd grand on this loan But this guy and I talked I call him like once a month like "Hey man 700 grand Hey man what's going on Just check in on you I want to have a good report It's a what they call a there's non-performing failed loans Then there's performing So I'm still getting paid but it can't sell to the agencies to buy that loan So it's my baby right It's my money sitting there So at least he pays every month." But that's the thing where when I talk through the ethics of lending and doing the right thing and speaking it because there's true blue consequences to these missteps and it's not like oh you lost $50 John It's like oh you you lost few hundred grand because when you look at lending and this is the thing that separates um what a great lender is and and everybody else is that that level of ownership of their loan Because if I'm really talking about it's the accountability and the ownership that you're giving your word to people and that's how you build a great company every loan every single time And that goes also with your employees Like your employees are kind like that's the thing like employees work for employer because they don't have to worry about making that payroll They trust in me They go hey these guys are solid people They have good financial decision-making So what that usually looks like is at night when where you're getting started like we did back in the day when it was 2008 when Wampler started the business Um there's three of us in an office looking together We're just jovial guys We're loving life Just get the loan done whatever happens because you get paid your fee If it gets really bad they'll charge you back the two or 3% maybe you made or the 1% if you went thin or even less than that When you're a lender and it goes bad it's like Chase Bank's like "Hey we don't like this loan and it's 950,000 We want our 950 back." And they only communicate by email So you can't even like pick up the phone and like you know I don't want to be too vulgar but mf somebody It's "Hey where's the money Where's the money Lebowski?" You know you're getting rolled up in that uh in that rug and getting taken outside This is because they said they would buy it and they're not wanting to buy it More So let's go let's go big picture about what what makes America a great country when it comes to housing We really talk about this that that this is this is huge picture So back in the day used to walk in a bank and I'd say "Hey hey Tyler Uh yeah I know your dad dude Shake my hand dude Let's get you this house It's uh the Fed Fed rate is 4 and a half You know we mark it up two points So your rate today 6 and a half Uh we'll lock you in for a period of 5 to 10 years and you know pay that thing off and get it going." So as we grew as a country what happened is we created these different financial products and that's what has made like when we talk through engineering and and financial in um financial ingenuity as a country we have done things that are totally different the rest of the world we have a 30-year fixed rate loan nobody else has that right buddy lives in Munich uh Germany the average down payment in Munich wait for it 50% down Google that hey how easy is it to get a loan in Munich not the first time buyers there There's no first- time home buyers there Real estate to buy real estate there There's there's a ton of rules in these other places So when we talk through just speaking about our business and why I think America is still the greatest country in the world is that we'll empower people to take advantage of this American dream cuz people are so focused on the affordability crisis not talking about hey man you probably don't need that car payment that's $700 a month You probably don't need the new iPhone that's 1,200 bucks You probably don't need to eat at Whole Foods M you can you can you can eat at Aldi right Uh you you you probably could uh not have every streaming channel possible right We could start making these these these sacrifices cuz most people make more than enough money It's just that we have been led astray as a culture about what saving money actually is and what we needs and and don't need Right That's what everyone's amazed like oh my grandpa made $38,000 a year and he retired with a million bucks He paid off his house drove piece of uh cars that were not perceived as high value but like does the car make you a better person or does the cell phone make you the right person Right Yeah He also lived through the Great Depression likely And saved every Sprite can that he opened and only drank half of it put tin foil on it put it back in the fridge Hey potentially potentially that But but back as a society back to where I started this wants needs and pains Yeah What do we do now We don't even talk through wants needs and pains We just complain Yeah Complain to get debt and they complain about the debt Government I thought you were going to provide for me Right So so back when we look at the mortgage business as an industry what what trans transpired is that we took it from a bank to a national level It's like FICO FICO scores right now It's a huge controversy It's a monopoly We're paying so much for these credit reports for a customer to get an application just to charge them to verify their own information Think about that They end up paying when their loan closes to FICO right enormous amount of fee to provide them the data that's there Put that in perspective because it's verifying these things right So what's happened is this We went from um a very regionalized localized lending to now national That credit score follows you everywhere you go So as as we talk through lending as an industry where it blew up is that we could not scale and standardize the ability to lend money to individuals right We couldn't standardize the ability to grow an economy because think about what one homeowner's impact is to a community I mean think about all the hands that touches when you're an agent Title insurance utility um stability education funding Like look at the schools like these tax the tax bill passed That's how that's the backbone of our world Education taking someone with no skill and to make giving them a skill right Yeah So um and people are always so critical of high school And I'm like hey if you actually look at the high school a lot of schools have vocation centers but you just didn't participate my friend So who's to blame the books in the library They probably had that financial peace book of Dave Ramsey or Rich Dad Poor Dad in your library But guess what You didn't open the book You stared at Tik Tok and did whatever Molly [ __ ] dances up in the background So as we talk through this industry it's evolved in a lot of iterations But now it's one of the best safe secures way to get a loan because when you think about this who in their right mind would lend anyone else money for 30 damn years at a fixed rate right And the best part is these things appreciate And the elephant in the room for the American is this People love to to to blame and cast out and be a hater right And say this is not true and not address the elf in the room which is it's never been another country where the minimum wage is talked about as it's a crime But they don't talk And then then the other extreme is the maximum wage is hate hated unlike a crime Heaven forbid the guy who grew up broke becomes a billionaire And either way there's something wrong with that Wait but the guy started at where we're at and he made something right Okay let's even go simpler What about the guy who's got 5 million Did he commit a crime here as we talk through this world So as we look at our environment and lending and becoming a good lender and talking about banking it's all predicated on being in America and how good our country is because the policies we create even though sometimes people like to cast out on them can help anybody who follows the means whether you're from uh Uganda China uh Mexico you can create a great life here And one of those great pieces of it is the American dream which to me is buying that house and that white picket fence That's the backbone of our society And that's what really empowers me to run a good mortgage company because I love it and I've seen it in my own life and that's what ties into that intro about being a real estate investor I was like wait I can buy something for a dollar that's worth four and then I can have other people pay my mortgage down And funny enough at 41 my first mortgage I ever bought is down to 26k Still holding on Holding on 26k I paid $98 15 But that's where I go with this is that there's so many success stories from making good financial decisions over periods of decades not one month not six months not even a year and you win right And that's what I love about the business is that um that's that's what I think is that if you have a holistic view of being a regionator you're extremely ethical and compliant and and straight communicator and you hold your word as your bond you can you can be very successful in this business because of the the country we're in as a long roundabout answer I have two follow-ups One is centered around how long do people stay in your industry One of my superpowers ever since I was a little kid is I always made good friends I always had a lot of friends The problem is being successful as a lender if we just talk about a probability sake is not very high It's extremely hard to break in especially as a retail loan originator So our business is um based upon building relationships and referrals with people who refer you clients and that in that in turn is a totally different skill than just being a good originator right So there's a couple ways you can get loans You can call in a call center We call that a direct model You call the call center that'd be like uh Rocket Mortgage or some of these other places They get the loan they don't know you to say "Hey here's our here's our price Here's what we can do." The second one is that you can get it through like a broker like we were or you can get it through a banker or you can get it through a depository lender Does that make sense So all those are the different channels So what happens though is you as you're a retail you know generate your own business some few times people don't make it So there's a lot of turnover as a loan originator space uh continuously And then the next piece that nobody talks about back what I hit on the beginning um banks fall out of favor with lending like [ __ ] Harris shut their residential mortgage team down Shut the whole department down Flagstar Bank sold off shut their whole mortgage team down right So there's just waves of turn turnover but our operational team is really the the backbone of the business And we've worked with a lot of these people for a good period of time and we have pretty low turnover there So the forward- facing that have to go out and fight to sell mortgages Yeah The like when looking at the successful ones you go "Oh that's the that's a sexy part about being a mortgage broker." Is uh those are the people that turn over often Do you see them go and be a backend They go get licensed as a realtor the high school and be a janitor Where are they going Yeah Yeah So when you when you look at the vocation the skill set um I I think about a lot of different sales roles and compare our vocation because I talk to a lot of people and and one of my key things that I'll tell everybody because so I'm 41 Um I turned 42 this month but I'm going to be doing mortgages a long time like a long time And I've seen this in my life which is I always try to tell people the 100% truth in what I would do So when they leave or they change vocations or their company situation changes they call me cuz they're like "John was honest He was truthful and he always was open with what he was trying to do So some people exit the business completely and honestly I'm like "Hey more power to you There's no point in being a bad a bad loan originator because you know what that equals Zero The lows of our industry similar to being a realtor are like So let me get this straight When you have a new uh mortgage origin join your team the base is zero No we is there a runway for people We give them like a draw We give them a starting point But I the issue with salaries is it doesn't teach you the right habits and skills Well we're done with it We've done it and it's a complete waste of money cuz they're leaning on daddy to give them leads and uh nurse them and it's like our mama I guess we don't want to do that To the roots team members we do not refer to ourselves as daddy Yeah Okay I was going to say yeah I'm saying I'm saying that's I'm saying that's a poor perspective that you have when you put someone on salary that really needs to be hungry to go out and kill for the right people will bet on him Okay but hold on So look at it like this This is this is what it comes down to As a society there's two paths that nobody likes to talk about but this is what I learned the hard way There's you trade time for money right Or you can make money on a sale And it's called this profit versus wages It's one of the key ways to wealth because you quit exchanging time for money So what most people are educated on is they grow up and they say what Hey if you work an hour you get X right My first job DQ 14 years old right I was a terrible student I was like you know what I'll do I'll prove my worth in the real world And my best thinking let's get a job at Dairy Queen That tell us you're a real winner right there dude Fat boy eating blizzards giving my buddies Not good I made $4. 25 I quickly realized cutting grass was far more profitable cuz I could cut someone's lawn for 20 bucks and if it took an hour that was like four hours of work right And I realized this pretty quick because here's what happened to me Unfortunately when I was 16 years old the first day I got my uh license my mom said I could drive her car I put my 311 tape in the uh recording deck or whatever you call that thing Turned on 311 and I piled my car on with my 12 best buddies and roll around [ __ ] you not 15 minutes later rear ended somebody broken dude So embarrassed So sad My mom's viny van bumberjacked I've never seen my dad so mad And he looked at me and he goes "How much money do you have?" I was like "I don't know,$120 bucks." He's like "Give it to me You owe me $800 or $850 bucks right now." And that's what started that relationship because it's from the idea as a parent in the modern world is like if I fight all the battles for my kid I'll create a winner If I get the right job right that mentality goes further If I get the right job the right opportunity I'll break it loose Versus the reality which is this we're trying to build up the players on the battlefield with those skills right Like that's what habits and routines really teach you They make you into the person you want to become It's not by a series of like luck and chance like we all tell ourselves Like I don't know if you've had friends who were rich when you were grow up like just rich Like my good buddy and he might watch this might not was Rick Thirsten First car was a 318i You guys don't remember this car was like a boxy BMW but then this is what got me on Beamers He got a M3 blue white interior Basically my brain fell out of my skull and I said "You know what I'm not going to be bored dude I'm gonna figure this [ __ ] out Guess what I drive now M serious beamers dude Now I'm kind of phasing out because I'm getting older but back to the the vocation piece is where I was going with this is profit versus a wage What you have to find to become a successful originator is you have to have that discussion with yourself Is this are you burning the boats or not right Are you ready to commit fully to it Because the salary is what you're using to mask resource versus resour resourceful as a successful person The most successful people everyone was like "Oh they had a they start on first base They did all these things." Not acknowledging their dad might have actually just coached them up or they might not even had a dad and they said "I have no option other than to be successful right I got to kill what I eat My mom needs money or my family needs money or hey my buddies are all rich and I'm poor and I'm not going to be the poor guy." Right And so you pick these vocs and those are the people right I always say this Um I go you you can and when I was single I'd always say I tell my newer sales guys this and this is cliche and we might edit this out or not but I'd always say what gets you more chicks man Six pack or six cars And they'd always be like six cars right So there's only one good time in your life to be broke right And when is it When you're young and naive That's why some of the best salespeople I have are actually married guys with kids because guess what They can't be broke at all And even if I offered them a salary of three four grand a month they go "Dude that doesn't even cover my grocery bill After taxes my mortgage is 15,800 Does that make sense?" So let's say you have the young guy who's married has a kid on the way or has a kid already joins MJW he has one year runway let's say 6 months he's got to be selling mortgages What would you coach him up on what to do Um one of my best sold sales people who don't work with me anymore took him six months to make his first sale And here's what happens to people Um and this is what happens to all of us We always think it should be different right It's like buying your first rental It's getting your first sale You're like "Oh hey I'm an agent Uh my friends are going to use me." And what happens They buy with their some person they don't know and they said "Dude I just didn't think you were ready to work with me yet." Or "You had enough business." You know So so back to that piece what I'll say is you might have to Yeah we'll get I'll say this to him I'll say you might have to get another job You might have to drive Uber at night You might have to stock shelves You might have to sell stuff on Etsy Yeah Because here's the here's the problem Building skill really only comes from one way and it's and this is the piece that nobody likes to talk about a burning desire You got to have a burn desire to run through every brick wall because it's this story of being successful that nobody likes to actually tell yourselves is like you the best story to tell yourself that makes you feel warm and hugged at night is I'm special I'm different um you know I deserve this right We've all said that And then what's the marketplace say Business is the only place where the brand new guy and the 30-year vet compete for the same customer And what like if you played football or you played any sports in life the analogy I'd use is it's the freshman versus senior What happens You're in the dirt right You're getting dunked on You're not making the team You're walking home because you can't certain going back to your discussion of profit versus wage Some people lean in when you start a home with profit That's the ones you want to bet on And some people lean away because they don't they don't have that assurance and confidence in themselves in what you were describing to me the vision I had about like you know you eat what you kill sort of thing was uh survival of the fittest And no doubt you know the one reality that we can bet on is um the natural world where the lion's going to eat the analopee It's just going to happen right The mortgage business the real estate business is actually no different And people want to be shielded from that And that's fine Go get your salary job for 50k with your 401k There's a there's a place for you if you want to be shielded But you're not really shielded You're still betting on the hopes of the whole economy to like provide for you No What I say is this The reality is always uh you're you got to go get yours Yeah And and here's the thing about a job that people fail to realize and it's it's tough But you got to remind yourself that as an employee who's non-revenue generating that's a distinction to make is that versus being a self-employed person with many customers guess what you have You have one customer and they're your boss And if your boss doesn't like you what do they say Hey I got Hey um come meet my office in 15 minutes Oh who's that Oh HR Today's your last day Appreciate the opportunity to work The paradox of security There's a paradox total security in that But that's where but back to this piece where where what I like about being a loan origin and we can talk broader about this as a as a vocation is this I saw quickly for me that I could make an impact on the marketplace because that skill set and that ability to execute and run a business plan is what separates people And the other piece why people forget about uh real estate and mortgages and this is a tough lesson too because back to how you grew up if you have scarcity scarcity is a great driver in the beginning of your career because you think hey there's only so many sales if I win you lose right or if I you win I lose right what you don't realize about real estate and mortgages is this it is so big there is so much business out there that once you actually get rolling it's like Max will be like John buy 18 duplexes you can do it right there's that many duplexes Well I don't know if you struggle with this I'm starting to struggle with th this with this idea of like I could go spend an hour lead generating right now and make 3x 5x or I could service what I have in front of me The easy thing for me to do is service what I have in front of me That's mostly what I do because I'm trying to balance I'm a new dad I want peace And for me serving the clients I have really well it gives me peace Yeah Yeah but I know in the back of my mind I'm like if I want to make millions I should be working on expanding the pie So so let's let's let's back out of the mortgage specific discussion Roger and talk through this business lesson I had because when we started think about this Think what I started I was this ADD guy who thought he was better than he was at writing loans right Which what I equated to my kid is when he was like "Dad I need my football gloves a day." I'm like "Oh you think you're sweet?" Right He like goes out there puts his Nike gloves on and I like give him just the easiest pass He like fumbles and I'm like real sweet buddy with your gloves Just play the game What happens is this As sales people you build your ego based on what One singular thing Results You make sales What do you tell yourself I'm better than this guy I'm better than these people And then as you really back it out and you really learn about the economy and your peer groups change you realize wait I got buddies who are spine surgeons and make $2 million a year I make 200 grand a year I probably need to have a little bit more humility with what I'm doing But as sales people you're kind of feeble-minded simple right We're comparing ourselves to our peers You compare yourself to your peers so you elevate your ego prematurely And by the way there's market reports that are click click There it is Exactly Boom Top 10 But but back to this piece about uh about vocation and then opportunities those are the entry points But really running a great business which is the hardest piece is that you have to surround yourself with people who know these operating structures and these operating procedures One of the naive pieces you have is that you think you're smart enough or you're better than you are And that's the classic entrepreneur That's why entrepreneurs sound sexy You know how much money I make Nobody cares dude Right What do they really care about Do you care about your customers Do you do a better job So back to starting businesses and what I've learned the hardest way is it's really hard to build the structure the operational structure first So that way it's not all on you You're not the the HR accounting sales finance because you build these channels in this team that does it So as you're firing yourself from jobs you're elevating your your what your real role and responsibility is in terms of leadership I like the framework of think of an NBA team Yeah You start off you're the on the rookie contract you build up to the All-Star League and then you're like well done playing going to be a coach now Then you get into the the office and then all of a sudden you own the team like Michael Jordan and you know you just go up the wrong and then you buy the league Yeah And and and there's some pieces there but but let's go simpler than like the let's go to the more specifics because what you're going to find out though is this As you go to hire people in the marketplace in the beginning the best employees are looking for your level of leadership and that they know there's risk in a company with five people They know there's risk in a company with 15 people So to really get this whole paradigm is you have to literally when people say bootstrap here's what it looks like It looks like the constant struggle where there's not enough time in the day You're always trying to generate revenue and then all the other tasks fill your early mornings or late nights because you got to make money in the day right And then you hire some friends or misfits and then you have you burn some bridges along the way because you're always like who do you hire first My best friend Why does this sound like our bio biography Because we are true entrepreneurs on the path My question is how do you get how do you get out of there's not enough hours in the day There's not enough this There's not enough that How do you get out of the scarcity So this is where this is where this map goes because you because here's how it goes What a very good friend of mine said to me one day He goes "John revenue and expense go in line." He goes "It's only the YouTubers and people who are like,"No dude it's a hockey stick Once you make enough money you can solve everything." No it goes like this right And then you'll have some moments where the market flips right It's like in the real estate business it's the two and 10 Two years you're going to rocket ship through the moon and crush it Most years it's about running a better business versus what we we equate it to And here's the thing to get there to make that jump to build a great company you have to great offer a 401k match at 4% to all your employees You have to match or offer insurance with you know $67,000 a year uh matching to get their cost down You have to invest in the technology because there's so many people in your space So that revenue and expense go hand in hand And as you're building these people you get lucky and you have unfortunately have to trade out employees for average employees to better employees than the best employees And those best employees like now would be like this They'll look at me like "Hey John why don't I just do this I'm better than you Please get out of the room You're you're too crazy You're going to take me down this wild goose chase." And that evolution only comes from the ability to scale your Salesforce deliver great experiences on that product widget service and then also keep upgrading to get to those people because guess what the thing about those best people are They're always employable They can always get a new job right And that's some of the most heartbreaking stuff Back to you know my superpower making friends I love these people Dude how do you take that This is a topic I'm obsessed with How do you take that a player who could honestly be a CEO somewhere could honestly probably go found the company but they probably don't want to because they have kids and they have because she's out How do you lock them down How do you get them to stay in your organization So here's here's a hard lesson and this is the thing I didn't realize And and back to sports So in life here's what you got to realize There's A players there's B players there's C players In A players it's like this It's it's this thing I'm realizing about uh sports What I used to always think as a kid is if I worked hard enough or if I lifted enough weights I could be good enough I work out with a guy who played in the NFL I work out with a guy who was a wide receiver at Notre Dame I work out with a guy who's a pitcher And if I I gotta clip this one because I want to post this on LinkedIn because they're all my LinkedIn buddies What you realize pretty quick is this Guess what My buddy played in the NFL is 6'8 You know what he told me If I wasn't 6'8 I wouldn't have played on the Colts You know what I do Been playing football at W Bash Right So you think about these things There's all those pieces to a players Sometimes they're born sometimes they're created sometimes it's just in their DNA There's a great book called motive that talks about this Like for me I love work Like my wife knows it And she's like "This dude's insane." Like people know I'll never stop working just cuz it's who I am B players right B players are good They can be good managers And there C players who just want to be on the team and they can do certain task as well But it depends on the role and the scope of work A players create more A players B players can bring you and make you successful but they won't build more people up Does that make sense And then C players can also attract more B players They make wars higher So but let's but let's also say this part of the reason that we we people don't always seek the real opportunity is peer groups Like you could actually get people to be a players but how many times in our life think about this in in the comedon the Marines said this and this is an important point It said "Who's your special forces in the Marines?" And I think about this all the time with my team He said "We don't have special forces." They're like "Well who's the special force?" He goes "All my Marines." Because what you think about why when you really get in an environment where you're pulled up and you have the best people around you what what happens You you wake up earlier you you you think twice about everything you do you hold yourself to a higher standard the bar rises The bar rises You you create a bigger opportunity for people because right like that's what that's what these companies who make all the extra money do They can reinvest in their people and teach them the best practice grow them right Like people always say in medical device we hire copier salespeople Why Because they have the best training They're not scared to cold call They built that muscle up from getting their ass kicked and getting put in the dirt Does that make sense Well let me ask you this Um do you think someone can evolve into an A player or were you born an A player Well so here's the hardest lesson I would have is that the single biggest driver of success and all it is just who you are and your desire If you're willing to be coachable and trainable and you have the right mentors around you maybe you don't you're not the best at math Maybe you're not the fastest player but right if you played out football at Alabama right you're probably pretty good football player and even if you rode the bench there you might be able to go play at another school right So back to this point is you're there's so many things about life about alignment And we can tie in this God and faith about living a more fulfilling life And this is not involving this pod but I'll I'll tie into it because here's what it is We all forget that it's like we are here by really grace and that we are in America But if you partner with the right people you learn the best practices right Think about this Some of the richest people in the world like Bill Gates's dad there's legendary stories about his leadership Legendary Did you ever hear the Starbucks story The founder of Starbucks was buying the franchise and the and one of the biggest business people in town was buying it and said "Hey man I'm buying this thing Schultz you're out." That's the the founder who scaled it I'm buying this thing And then his buddy heard about it like someone went through his network and said "Hey you got to go talk to Bill Gates's dad." Bill Gates's dad was like 6'5 monster super successful attorney He started talking about it went to his office It's like "What do you think we can do?" He goes "Uh grab your stuff We're going to walk over there." He walks over to the guy's office and confronts him in person And this is an insane YouTube story That is leadership Those are the people Think about if you hang around those people right For me I go the other extreme I think about when my little boy is 20 years old and he's like "Who was my dad Who's that guy Who's that guy What time's that guy wake up What time's that How's that guy live on his nights and weekends Does he short change his push-ups Does he not call people?" That's more important than how to be a good mortgage broker How to be a good mortgage broker downstream from what kind of man what kind of person you are right And it's not only from men women too right But yeah but alto together right But but that's where I go with this stuff because what I've learned the hardest way is the inside out is my goal singularly was to make money and buy real estate and and be cool and in the dude that's feebleminded as it gets authenticity and be and achieve and achieve these material successes but not realizing what really lights up my life is community is is is passion is compassion for people is is financial prosperity to help people out who might not see it coming A life of abundance Yeah And and really it's life of servitude and being a servant because abundance is found in giving too right It's like we've been given life We've been given grace being born in this world It's like we're called to give that up And I think passion and building business Some people are wired to go move to India and serve the poor And I think they should Maybe more people that are called to that than do it Some people are called to build a fantastic mortgage business that helps people own homes and exhibit great character and leadership in that And and where I go with it is even more fundamental than this is as we talk through communities and housing and why this is a very important subject for me is that as a country we kind of hate poor people and it's and it's a universal truth Like look at EBT There's food deserts in the hood for a reason because food banks closed and all the lobbying went to EBT right And then the grocery stores who lobbied for those EBTs said "Hey we don't want to serve these people." So now they're eating nachos and Doritos and drinking 42 ounce uh diet dues Dude Google that That's like that's what happens as a society when we when we get lost track So it has to be the people who stand up and say "Hey I want to like to your guys' matches grow roots Home ownership proves to be improved communities Home ownership improves uh school systems right Because you have more of a tax base Those are all the things that we see Like specifically Indianapolis what bothers me is like you look at all the news coming out of Tech High School What do we say Oh that's the hood Well why is that Is it categorical Is it societal Is it bad Is it bad policy Right Because the rich people of what you've explained extrapolated right No leadership lack missing fathers no infrastructure no role models But how do you what what Okay let me ask you this then Okay there's a kid He grows up with no dad who who's his peer group Bunch of kids with no dad Yeah I mean that's his network So that's where I'm going with this as you think about life is that what I've learned is this inside out approach is that early on my buddies would still say I'm still the same But certain levels of financial uh success are worldly and then in the end you can transpire trans transcend those into really making an impact and giving back And that's what fires me up about growing a company is that that the lives I can change and how I can take some guy who has every deficiency known to man and maybe never made any money and I can show him my paint by numbers approach to being successful I can show you almost to a science But the issue is this If you don't have those commitments and those desires it's easy to chip to to not follow through right Because that's what like follow like follow through is such a big skill Well it takes buy in right You can't put somebody in the passenger seat and take them to the moon unless if they're bought in and stay there long enough No doubt I mean we've had turnover within our own team where it's like we have the blueprint because here's the models of how it's gone But then you look within of the person that got successful and go "Oh they were hungry and they were willing to walk home without a car if they and that's what's so hard about scaling and talking through going from you know 15 to more employees than that now is that there is a lot of heartbreak There's a lot of tough conversations And now I just shoot them straight out of the gate I'm like the lows are really low I say it up up front I'm like but the highs are can be really high But my job here is to show you the way It's up to you to say hey number one trait I talk about is desire And then number two is the integrity you have with yourself So if I say hey we're going to wake up early because it's a pendulum right You have to you have to have desire to wake up and sell on the days when you have the most money in your account And vice versa when you have no money you have to still have the desire to wake up and sell and get you know [ __ ] thrown at you You have the desire but you don't have the um character and integrity That's a recipe for Bernie Maidoff right So you have to have both They're equally important that you said the integrity with yourself or or like what I'll tell you Yeah it's a balance What I'll say is this like if you don't really care about people every transaction is a unit a notch in your belt And what do you do People feel it Like that guy doesn't give You get burned out too Yeah You get burned out So no within So so back to hiring If we talk through these profiles here here's here's what it really is is that there's certain profiles where certain people are good salespeople Here's my experience If you grew up poor that's a huge check mark Number one to be a great salesperson if you if you feel like you have the world has done you wrong and you're going to prove them wrong and you're going to do it by your success in sales So the dark the darkness I don't know the dark edges different things But but if you if you and then if you maybe have a little bit of insecurity oh that's the perfect trio Poor world's telling you a lot of insecurity you know what you'll do Whatever it takes because you're like "Hey I can't drive this piece of ish car." You're like "Dude it's paid off." Don't care I'll take a mortgage out for this thing right But that that's a successful salesperson but follow me here Also equally successful people are like "Think about engineers." Hey I hate how this uh green light works here I'm going to invent a new something that widget Because here's the whole thing about really running a good business that not a lot of people talk about Why you don't always have to have great marketing to get word of mouth If you do such a good job in doing your sales process because we've talked through kind of business the the industry now we're talking through sales but let's talk about running a better business Why do people love certain restaurants There's line around the corner It's like the Swigs thing You drive down Meridian line around the corner because they have it such a good experience that people want to try it Maybe it's a fad maybe it's not Okay let's follow like another food analogy Chick-fil-A People wait in line for that Chick-fil-A man That sandwich is six bucks and it's not good for you But back to giving great experiences in our spaces What I try to do is live in a concier relationship being available leading by example with my sales team and to my customers And then also being extremely available and thorough with our process so they only can naturally refer because like this guy's full service right Like I know if you guys were calling me 8:00 at night it wouldn't be just to chat It'd probably be like "Hey man we need you Tap in the game coach." You know because the service is how you grow and build that piece of the business as well Yeah I love this conversation about business development I do want to I have some like lending specific questions I want to get into Yeah That are just burning on my mind that I think listeners have to I think that conversation is great We probably will return to because that's who you are I want to know this Um we I talk to people my age all the time that don't own a home It's we have swarms of them Yeah They're perpetually renting and you know some of them maybe it makes sense because it's cheap and they're getting on their feet I'm not saying it's a bad decision but they want to own a home Most of them want to own a home someday Some don't feel like they ever can Um and they will come to me Hey Tyler you're the real estate guy Tell me what am I already And I guess who I have to uh introduce them to immediately Yeah It's the lender I was like I can talk you through every home on you know from green from green uh field to to freaking Lebanon but if you're not lendable Yeah and able to be qualified doesn't mean jack squat we're not even going to see a home until you're pre-approved So like someone uh this is a very I guess like practical question Yeah First-time home buyer what are you telling these people like "Hey I want to own a home." What are the the metrics What do they need to know Um Yeah So so this is a topic we talk about all the time So first things first if you're a first-time home buyer trying to get approved the number one thing most people do is that they hold on to this their personal information as if um it's like they're show they're like getting a physical from their doctor They're like I don't want to go It's like going to the dentist People like I'm going to the dentist in seven years Most people don't realize that they actually qualify in the current setup for a home The issue is this They've spent so much time searching the web and on the internet They have all these they think they know but they don't I have to have perfect credit John I got student loan debt I can't qualify Not true Hey I don't have 20% down I can't buy a home John Right These are all the disqualifications that people say ever before they apply Think about that Hey John I've been on my I just graduated college I can't get a home loan can I Right These are all the mortgage myths and it's a huge issue in the space because what I have found why most people don't buy a house is they never ever even apply or talk to somebody And I think it's twofold I think it's one is it's easier to watch the news and disqualify yourself And the second part of it is it takes a little bit of courage Takes a little bit of courage to call somebody and say "Dude I want to buy a home but I don't know where to start." Like everyone wants to look smart now and post on Instagram like some cool picture in Bise or something versus just being like a normal person and just say home isn't what people are necessarily bragging about but that's no doubt should be No doubt But it's that simple That is the singular biggest issue because then we can coach and train you There's certain markets it's not worth buying a home but here in Indianapolis it makes sense for almost every single time because there's some crazy data I could start quoting and spouting off like what's a house going to be worth in 30 years It's estimated out to be about $1. 72 million That's a clip right there boys That's a clip But where I'm going is this First-time home buyers are so need to literally be taken by their shirt collar or uh by their uh by their by their neck and saying "Call a lender get your credit pulled let's look at your stuff and make a plan." Cuz the best part about that that piece is we can turn someone from a non-qualified borrower to a qualified bar in less than 12 months usually So and they also start to listen to seller finance things and and want to find a deal and want to find this and want to find that Oh my gosh It's the average age right But it's what 32 is the average age for a first- time home buyer It's way higher than that now Way higher 38 because it's national Are you looking at courage to that 38's whenever somebody finally gets a humility So back back to where we've talked about all this gamut of stuff today The average person might not set goals The average person might not have a plan in place The average person might not have a friend like you who goes "Hey man I'm going to encourage you to do something you don't want to do." I have a tenant right now 780 credit score makes four times the monthly rent Obviously I'm fired up I'll keep these guys as long as you know they want to be there But I called him I'm like "Do you want to resign the lease or go buy a house?" He's like "Why would I buy a house?" I'm like "Because you have a 780 credit score and you make four times the monthly rent me You could have this house for 900 bucks a month and you're paying me 18." So so but this is where this is where advocacy and back where I was starting to rant about being poor people and all this stuff That is what that is what is the hardest part about the disconnect on the content online to the realities of America Here's what here's what I think is lacking I think the starter home mentality has been lost because you look at the starter homes they're making and they're $450,000 The ones they're building PY and them they're 4 and they're not really starter homes But let's call let's call let's call it what it really is If we're really being honest here this this road to nowhere narrative that people hear they're like the affordability I can't tell you how many people have a car payment that is sucking their net worth dry right I'm not kidding you I can't tell you how many people get Door Dash I mean like like like there's there's no food Like the money comes in it comes it goes straight out The people with a cell phone bill of $180 a month Like I'm going down this thing from this standpoint If we really want to fix this savings rates are negative They positive in the United States They're very negative But back to this point about first-time home buyers and affordability That narrative wears me out because here's the whole thing I and and I'll send you guys the graph of of home prices increases and I just did at our sales meeting today I did a whole presentation about this Credit card debt just hit its highest level ever Guess what also hit its highest level ever Home equity Guess what also hit its highest level ever What nobody's also reminding themselves Paid off homes This idea that people people love to complain about the hypothetical versus accepting the reality And here's what we all like the three of us have to agree to Just get in the game You can't the 80s don't I'm gonna clip up this section and send it to because you're gonna have to because the first time because a first- time home buyer is not going to listen this far along into the Fact There's no shot There's no shot But back to You're all homeowners I know you are Back to this whole point though Here's here's where I'm going People hate to hear this Your car is a waste of money Sell it Dude now with these tariffs you might get paid Buy a piece of car Sorry a car with 100,000 miles still runs turns on gets you point A to point B Hey maybe you don't need whatever new iPhone it is Maybe you don't even need cable Maybe you just need your internet and no subscription services right Maybe you don't finance anything anymore And you go old school back to where we started about like my grandfather or anybody else Start saving those sprite kids That's all those millionaires were made right Well didn't finance anything But now now they invested in Starbucks Yeah exactly now being but now now buying in the buying a home has never been easier because the narrative that first-time home buyer crisis is such a farce of crap Sorry you can't buy your dream home in uh San Francisco I have a home right now on the market that most of my friends would not buy I'm not trying to sell a home here but if Grand Avenue is still on the market by time this episode comes out there is a bigger two bed one bath better than most apartments in Indie two bed one bath South Irvington You can get it for 0% down and your payment's going to be 900ish But so so we have a whole portfolio that you can So let's let's go Tell me why Why would So let's This is Oh you want to live on Mass Avenue This is a clippable moment right here This is what it is This is the truth The average homeowner the average first-time home buyer has watched so much content That's a road to nowhere why not to buy or why these hypothetical people who sell courses online and don't actually own any of the real estate they claim they do that's selling them why you can get a home run deal or the other extreme why you can't buy a house right and here's the truth narative it's one or the other and here's the truth um I just got a deal last week guess what I got this duplex for 120 is that a smoking hot deal yeah right okay but let's go this must be a piece of crab oh no it's a winner okay but but I'll go with this if If you're a first-time home buyer and this is the clipable thing and this will be good If you're a first-time home buyer you have to connect with your agent and then actually heed to their advice which is making the call to get an application in And that's if your credit is zero or your credit's perfect That's if you got a million in the bank or no million in the bank because us as a profession can guide you to the road to buying that first home And then as we get that data on you we can find the homes that meet your budget and criteria And if you believe that home prices are going to go up it doesn't matter I have all the data that will show you what home prices have done for almost the last 50 years But John the interest rates they're so high Interest rates right And here's another thing back to these people people that they forget Paying off debt or getting rid of it is a pay raise So it's all about allocation of your after tax dollars And the uncomfortable conversation is this You can't go out to eat and spend $700 a month being social You can't spend your money on whatever gadget whismo hobby clothing uh thing you want to We have to make sacrifices when you're young to leave the lead the life of freedom you want Exactly And that's the key Buy in Yeah I just had a coaching session right before I came here and and I was talking about this idea of like I love leading people but leading people doesn't lead me to dollars Here was the first quarter where I did that and he was like he he pressed me on it He said "I challenge you to not earn a dollar the rest of this year and figure it out You'll you'll be fine You'll be totally fine because you're leaps and bounds ahead of where you need to be." And and I was like "Huh?" So I mean my task tonight I I don't know My task tonight is to go see how long I mean and and the way that he said it was he was challenging me to see how long I could last because there's so much scarcity that comes in Oh the checking account looks low Oh the equity's high but the checking count's low right You can't buy groceries with equity And it's to your point people are out spending 700 bucks on Door Dash a month right If I had your perspective I'd be like interest student loans I want to show this Then we're going to go to our uh rapid fire ending questions But Kevin Kelly does he's like the world's most interesting man Um Tim Ferris episode with him was really good Once a I think it's once a year Once a year he lives off oatmeal and he sleeps on the floor in a um a sleeping bag on the hardwood floor And he says why does he do it It's because like Synica has this quote of like he's like uh do the bare minimum live living in like the bare minimum conditions It'll show you like I'm just fine Like I have my mind I have my passion I have my skills And then you go back to your life of company You're like "Oh my gosh it's amazing I have a bed I have air conditioning." Right I can make better food than oatmeal But it's a good exercise I haven't been doing it but I honestly need to because I get scared too I haven't closed a deal this month The whole world's burning I got to go sell anything It's like no I'm actually going to be fine Well all of a sudden I'm listing my freaking stapler on Craigslist And and here's the whole thing So think about this So what you focus on grows And this is what this is back to this piece and this is philosophical but it's it's the ability to self-console And back to being an absolute beast of a human being is that ability to self- console no matter what the environment is The world's burning to the ground Guess what Good Good Right And there's so many books and things that talk about like physical challenges but one of the hardest parts of the modern world is this mental health and being able to self-control when it's like back to like growing growing a company or buying a first home all it the mental challenges that we face today because people all relish on their cell phones and don't actually be purposeful with connection and being raw is just that is that that is the ultimate skill now is your ability to execute in the face of fear of not knowing what to do trying something new bowling doing whatever the hell it is and uh and really achieving because just like buying your first home is that yeah it is scary but that's that's a that's a nurtured skill right that's a learned skill to do things in the face when you might not be ready The timing might not be right Nobody else is doing it And that's how you win And it's really not that hard when you have trusted people behind you I have I have a first-time home buyer We were on showing number six offer number two He texted and was like "Is the fall a better time to buy Is it just busy right now?" And I said "You're 24 hours from getting an offer accepted I guarantee you." And he was like "What do you mean We don't have anything out We just got declined." I'm like "There'll be a house that comes online today We're going to go see it We're going to write an offer tonight and you're going to have it accepted." Guess what happened is going through inspection today Exactly And this is and this is what I say about this all this stuff is the deal of the decade comes once a week Yeah And it does And back to where we're going about home buyers lending all these things You can't time any of the market And this this has to be repeated You're a participant in the market Market makers are billionaires and there's not that many market makers Think about that The people who really make the markets are insane The guy who owns Citadel Capital he was the biggest taxpayer in Illinois And then guess what he did He left Illinois and the the economic output there is insane right It's it's gigantic for when he left his company and took his employees That ain't us That ain't us Who's watching this podcast Indianapolis We are participants in the market And with expert advice you can buy that first home You can find that upgrade You can buy that first rental But the issue is this Don't be a voyer Don't be staring in the window peeking Get in the game Reach out If there's one thing that podcast take away it's that And everyone needs to hear I need to hear like you you can't be this window shopper You have to and the key the physical key that unlocks that is relationships rel you love and trust Yeah And do it with the people that you respect that are like "Hey man have accountability I wouldn't put you in this spot if I didn't think it was good for you." I think that there's I mean there there's desires and needs in there too right It's it's the physical key that unlocks it But if you don't if you don't read about or hear about oh the story of what I did 2020 bought my first house 2023 sold it for $110,000 gain AJ videographer listening to this if that doesn't piss you off and make you want to go buy a house tomorrow like there's no desire there You want to rent That's that's the definition Well and and and and what I'll also say is this is that risk is a learned piece and it's it's calculated risk to figure it all out And that's what we have to work on with those adviserss I've loved where this has went and I told you that we'd go to the deep stuff We're going to wrap up with some rapid fire questions that we use every single episode John before we let you go we like to wrap up with a couple rapid fire questions Tyler kick us off with our first one What's the go-to date night spot in Indie So uh I've been a arguably a socialite multiple different times What I like to do is just go wherever the newest spot is So like I'm going to that new Intercontinental Hotel downtown Indie on Saturday whatever that bar is Um they have like a rooftop or something like that That's where I'm going I don't know the name of it But my wife is like a gluten-free silc So we usually just keep it pretty pretty bare bones on what go to restaurants but Ocean Prime I wish I could drink more No I do like drinking but I don't drink anymore all the time Yeah But I like to drink if I can What's one habit that changed your life marrying my wife to caught not taught She woke up all the time early and guess what Now she sleeps in a little later and I wake up at like 4:30 every day So tired What scenario you're currently focused on growing to just just faith and uh that it's not up to me and that we're part of a bigger plan and that you know all we are is participants in this and nothing's ours and it's all for God and you know give it up You know how blessed we are Surrender It's a good habit Yeah How is uh how are you working to expand on that First thing in the morning when I wake up cuz you know I stress myself off and I'm a doom and gloom guy and pissed off most time and world of not enough I wake up and I'm like I'm alive I'm breathing at the gratitudes My gratitude I look at my ceiling I'm like "Oh yeah that's a a custom wood ceiling arched white oak That's badass." I mean like that appreciate those things Oh yeah Start my car and the car is loud I mean just like cliche so many rich billionaires that you were talking about swimming in your own pool the earlier before we were talking I know a lot of people that are absolutely miserable that have own pools So So it's your ability to focus and that's where that narrative is programmed and your ability to [Music] self-conscious they were born Mhm Then they died And if that's how you want to live your life more power to you For me I want to be like I want to be like "Dude I love my kids I wake up and have fun I enjoy this is it's it's a I get to versus have to like working out with your buddies Like oh I don't work out today." You're so happy when you do You're so happy when you call that buddy up and talk to me like "Hey man I appreciate you were just on my head." Well and I think you have to think about your own funeral One are you going to have a lot of people there And two are those people going to be celebrating happy um or is it just going to be going through the motions Right No doubt And a agent joined our team uh Ian um and he said he his grandma died She lived in Princeton Indiana It's a town of probably 10,000 people or something like that And he said she he was able to like his dad called him and was like "Hey you and like your grandma's dying like here." And he handed the phone and she was like "Ian um just make sure you keep the main thing the main thing." It's about like faith you know God and whatnot And he said he went to her funeral and the whole town was there Like the whole place was packed out and he said the main topic everyone was just talking about like Jesus and just like he said every conversation was about Christ and just like how positive it was That was really moving hearing that story cuz I was like right now I'd die and I don't think I don't know if that would be my funeral And I'm like that would be terrible And it was a profound shame There's a profound impact from like a housewife right that just lived a normal life in a small town that made an impact on everybody because when somebody got sick she made soup Well it's also a societal thing where we judge people for that And again it's like you know my church Our Lady of Mount Carmel says it best like what's your goal as a father as a dad And this is what nobody actually talks about society You know it really is It's not wealth It's not rentals It's getting your kids into heaven And that shook me because you and I talk about JJ we could go buy this stuff and make this money and get this deal Oh we can go swim today and do How dumb are we dude We are literally specks of dust right Who are here for such a short period and then what do we always do Here's what's wrong Here's what I didn't do right And that's where back to what I was trying to focus on because again when you flip the script to get what you focus on grows think about that What you focus on grows So when you think about gratitude when you think about how lucky am I How how lucky are we that we're doing this podcast together Like the three of us are psychopaths We record content put it out there right Which I love Um that's what makes life worth living man Is this exciting things that document this and it's so cool as you look back at it because that's the best piece of this too is when you focus on yourself and not in the sense of like what I'm achieving but you go back and watch these clips years later like I have my old YouTube videos from like 10 years ago It's hilarious cuz that's who you're really competing against Go ahead Foggy webcam No my videos were actually elite but uh they've only gone downhill since then Exactly Now I talk too much We've lightly touched on it just a little bit and I don't want to let you go yet Uh the topic of being a dad in this world Um I don't think that there's enough content out there I'm a new father six months into this thing as of today Uh shout out Grayson Halfway around the sun We I've learned in such a short time I have to wake up every day and care and want or your wife has to care Let's be honest dude Let's not let's not take all the credit Right Right I mean as a dad to be engaged Yes Yes Well the woman has a natural Yeah No doubt You have to actually fall in love with your kid Yeah And leading uh it's like the most terrifying thing in the world is to lead a young little boy right How are we going to shape him to be a man How are we going to show those habits Um and that's something that like I never thought of And I look around I'm like "Oh no wonder dads are always lazy because they can cop out real quick You have to actually lean in You have to engage You have to be present and intentional because there's I mean you just can't be a piece of [ __ ] right Yes You have to be in an image of God to the to your son So so here's here's what's insane So it's 200 and uh I graduate college 2007 and I get this job at this casket company and I work there for 3 months and I'm like this job sucks My sister worked at Carer Butler and this is insane And she goes "Do you want to move to London I have a job for you paying you like 80,000 base You'll make like 200 grand." I'm 23 I'm so excited So what do I do Parents book ticket move in with her Um but think what's happening that's brewing that I have no clue 2008 right So Career Builder London you know huge company at the time killing it Job boards job posting selling So all of a sudden I get there and I'm working I'm there two weeks and they go "Hey we had an issue with your visa." And in the moment I'm like "My visa What do you mean that was done?" They're like "Oh it got denied." I was like "My visa got denied." So then they were like "Well it's going to take a little bit." So they go "I don't know how long." So I had four weeks in Europe and I had a moleskin and I wrote out all these goals and and it ties into being a dad and I was like you know because you go through these paths and and when you have time people are constructive with their time or unconstructive and I'm like a goal setting person So I was writing out all these crazy goals So like one of these roles goals I wrote out was like having four kids So that's 2008 I'm writing out these goals and so it's years later and I find this notebook and I'm reading all these things I'm like supermodel wife I think my wife's pretty close to that you know four kids building a business all those are the things you want But what happens that you have to remind yourself when the kid arrives it's the first time at least for me as being a dad that you realize like holy [ __ ] there's a lot more to life than just the things I focus on Like there is truly a creator Like this is insane And then your heart breaks when you hear about kids being sick and things like that But back to this concept about being a dad is thoughts are things And the second piece of being a dad that's the hardest lesson and it's the most challenging thing possible is your kid catches who you are Do you remember that fight you ever had with your dad where you said what you really thought of who your dad was and you saw his face either drop or go beat red He's like I'm going to kill you Like you don't have any friends dad like you said some like off-the cuff Your kids are going to know who you really are right Cuz your kids and then your kids know how to poke you And does that make sense It awakens It should awake something inside of you If it doesn't what does that do They run away right They retreat to what's comfortable Maybe it's work maybe it's whatever But as a dad back to this whole thing society what you realize too is you're also kind of alone because like you you can't hang out with people And then you realize all these masks you did you put on the society once you have that kid you got to be raw dude cuz who are you at 2 in the morning You're freaking tired dude And you can't be like "Hey wife will you get up the kid She's done it all day You got to step up." So back to this concept of being a dad There's a there's a lot to it And and honestly that's part of where my commitment and my goals were crystal clear And for me really what commitment means in my mind is cutting out all the [ __ ] right Drinking staying up too late spending time on the weekends without my family Uh working on working out by myself Like we did group workouts We're in Florida last week Hilarious Do we have these videos All my kids doing it But that's how champions are built right Cuz what I want my kids and when people meet them in 20 years I want them to be like "No doubt Murphy's his dad he's no wonder he's successful Versus the idea of well you know John just ditched him and you know he uh he had to grow up without a dad because he was something his dad's just a deadbeat You know what I mean Like you know you have we've all heard these narratives with people right And that's for me I want to give my guy my my kid this this this life of where he knows about his faith and why we believe what we believe And I think that's fundamental That's why I feel like people go away from the Catholic Church Again different conversation Second piece is the habits Not because I preached to him because I mean your guys's dad My dad would sometimes be like "John you're lazy piece of ish Step up." But he knows He's like "Oh my dad wakes up early." Dead serious He knows that He's like "Oh my dad runs a business." Yeah my dad talks on the phone all the time Like to a fault Those are the things I mean that's who we are right But that's that's that's what I'm going to get caught not taught And being that dad and and being being a being a good dad and having a big family is not easy dude It's easy if you're good at making money and you have money and you say "I can do this." But if you're building a business and you have kids young it makes you the ultimate business person too because guess what right No plan B Can't go tell mom "Hey uh we can't provide for the kid We got to get you got to go back to work right Woof." Right My my wife thinks my wife was an eye doctor dude Yeah Optometrist So about to replace there Now she's married some loser mortgage guy who wakes up broke in the morning and that's a bit to have on the shoulders but it's not framing it up as weight on the shoulders It's um more so I'm struggling to explain it So no let's connect the dots So back to that guy who I started with who I don't even know anymore That 18-year-old guy who is feeble-minded thinking about achieving making money is how you judge yourself to the 41year-old man I don't know that dude cuz I kicked his ass I did everything I could Could I put myself in stressful spots I'd had the evolution I did all these things I've had more growth since I've had my son and got married than I did in the whole part of my life Because what happens You got to step up You can't just tell your wife "Hey we're going to negotiate on everything I told you when we were dating You know you got to go back to work We're not going to get that house I promised you I'm not that business guy that ultimate sales guy I said I was I was just some deadbeat loser just lied to you." Well you just rose the tide No doubt So you got to ride the wave got to ride the wave That's how we win And for me I'm obsessed with with this kind of thing and that's how I I try to grow But as a dad it should be the ultimate motivator But it also should reconcile where you're at with your skills that you should know how to make money right Like my dream for my kids is they parachute in any city in the world and they know how to lead an org They know how to make money They know how to you know pitch a tent a literal tent and survive They know how to they know how to be happy They know how to help lift up a community if that's their thing They might just be like "Dad I'm just going to live off you." Which heaven forbid but there might be a possibility But you get where I'm going here Those are the kind of things when I talk about being a dad that matter to me is that I want my kids when when I'm dead they go I know his core values I know what he would expect of me I know what time he'd want me to wake up I know like how to do a push-up Like I always yell my kid doing push-ups That's a superpower If you want your kid to be stronger than other kids have them do 10 push-ups 10 pull-ups 20 air squats and 20 sit-ups a day your your kid you're like "Dude your kid's like way stronger than people." Five minutes a day at sports your kid dominates any sport at least when they're little till everyone else catches up Stuff like that Yeah I think the most meaningful uh image I have for my childhood is we would go like down on spring break to like we would stay in one of these condos Like now we have they get like an Airbnb in house cuz like they money but we would go in like these condos And so you're all crammed up It's like six three of us kids or four of us kids um depending on which one was born and we're going to the beach and before we go to the beach there's my dad shirt off doing push-ups and sit-ups He's getting the workout in We just got there got out of the car he's doing push-ups and sit-ups And as a little kid I'm like "Oh okay." Like I I didn't join Sometimes we join in sometimes we wouldn't But it gets baked in right Okay That goes in the oven Ding ding pop out And you're 20 years old What does it mean to be a man That means oh even if you're going on vacation we're going to find a way to get in Man by day man by night And it's a tough lesson Well you could do a lot of lip service right But showing the identity and having that role model is the most important I'm watching my nephew addresses me and my whole family dies laughing at this I love it He'll if he's asking for me like "Where's Max?" He goes "Max Max?" Puts his phone up to his ear because I'm always closing deals And Ollie's like "Where's Max He's probably closing deals." And then he'll come find me and he's like "Max Max Max."